Re: Y is it so? And will sex for fun survive?

Octavio Rojas Diaz (
Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:37:14 -0600

> Yes, one of the side effects (related to the illegality of it) will put one in
> prison for possession.
> Perhaps that helps to explain why the corrupt US government has made it illegal?
> (Pardon my harping on this. I just watched a PBS documentary about the so-called
> "war on drugs.")

Well unfortunately for the people who lives in the usa and who make it a great country, the usa goverment is controlled by greedy enterprises and individuals, that use the law for their own purposes, for example dupont helped to pass the marijuana ban because hemp was competing with it's products, my theory is that E is ilegal, not because the potential of damaging the brain (in that case, alcohol would be ilegal, everybody would be smoking dope and boxers would spend their entire life in prison, not to mention a lot of medicines like haldol) it isn't either because it makes people get high (alcohol is legal, OTC stuff like dextromethorphan or dramamine give you really intense highs, even higher than those of LSD) but instead because it competes with the antidepressants on the market.

I think the reason that drugs are ilegal also is because of racist association of inmigrants in the usa (asians using opium, mexicans using mj, black people using crack) or because some drug advocates are deviant and irreverent to the goverment, (timothy leary for example I'd recommend anybody to read it's biography at it's interesting to notice that leary had a lot of extropic ideas (he even wanted to be cryogenically preserved, and said that the internet would make profound changes in our societ, and considered it the LSD of the 90's :)

I've tried both (antidepressants and E) and I have to say that E is really a wonder drug, it cured my depression, improved my self esteem, gave me a lot of insight on myself, it reduces your stress as well, and makes you really loving and empathetic, contrary to cocaine for example that makes you believe you are god, that you are superior to everyone and that your problems doesn't matter, E makes you think in your problems, but in a optimistically way, it is a great tool to deal with them, and it's positive effects might last forever

in my case I just took it once and since then I felt exactly like when I took antidepressants without the negative side effects (loss of creativity, anxiety, etc) my friends who took it with me used to smoke pot daily and they quit since then, unlike coke or amphetamines I didn't feel any craving at the come down (although your milleage may vary) and the experience was soooooo fullfiling I didn't feel the need to take any other drug after the effects wore off, (and I've been sober since I took it and that was a couple of months ago) so I think that it has great promise agaisnt addiction treament, specially used in conjunction with other psychedelics.

Actually after much debating E was temporarily placed on schedule III for some time thus meaning it had potential for medical use and moderate potential for addiction, but then it was put on schedule I again (no known medical use and really high potential for abuse) I think this is ridiculous more dangerous drugs (coke and heroin) are placed in schedule II (High potential for addiction, known medical use) while other safer drugs, like LSD, E and pot are on schedule one (although there is an initiative to put pot on schedule II) and I think it's really bad for the life quality of many many people, to be denied these benefits, not to mention that it contributes to the stigmatization of the psychonaut, as a junkie or criminal, the ironic thing is that many people copy cd's, pirate software or trade warez, or kids access pornography sites in their homes, and most people don't consider these individuals social deviants, it's also funny how many people deem sci-fi as stupid or ridiculous, but believe in the paranormal ( a friend told me that matrix and nirvana were stupid, but he was delighted with the sixth sense)

> >LSD also affects serotonin so this might explain why some users
> >find some of these positive effects with that drug, hopefully further research
> leads
> >to the discovery of some really useful, powerful and safe mind altering
> chemicals.
> Do you suppose the Global Brain, the cyber god, the SI, Metaman, posthuman AI,
> transhumans, or whatever we choose to call that which emerges from accelerated
> ultra-technology will become interested in psychedelics? Or will it take the
> conservative route and try to wipe out, persecute, pillory, and imprison drug
> users?

Well my personal theory is that as people and society tend to evolve and they notice the stupidity of the war of drugs, it causes crime, makes the substances easier to get for kids, a lot of people die because of adultered stuff, and people still get high no matter their attempts to stop it, and people realizing the war on drugs actually contributes to more addiction (kids smoke dope, and find out they don't get insane, get their brains damaged, or go thru the horrors the "junkies" go decide to try stronger stuff, and because there is no proper drug education (unfortunately) they can get hooked up on really dangerous stuff, or do drugs in an irresponsible, careless way and get into trouble (just like when premarital sex was demonized) and with the rise of drug users (who become public) drugs will eventually become legal, and they we'll be seeing wonderful mind tools that'll amaze us more than the ones we have now.

At first people will get scared and will shun drug users (like they did with gays, witches, people who masturbate, black people, etc) but they'll finally accept it and when we finally see a power rise I suppose that in it's incredible wisdom and intelligence, will be pretty interested in them (if he doesn't use them himself)

I wonder what will happen first, if drugs become legal, singularity hits or nanotech arrives any comments?

Another thing that interests me, do you think will be seeing virtual drugs? (altered consciousness states with other kind of brain stimulation) with vr for example, and that the current substances with have now, or even newer safer ones will be combined with vr, for synergistic effects?

> >it is really a very interesting era to live in!

I'd also like to suggest other topics for debates, do you fellow extropians, as the smart, rational scientific and freedoml loving individuals you are, what is your position on prohibition, not just on drugs but on guns, abortion, etc is?

and do you feel that the usa is becoming a totalitarian state? do you think this kind of censorship is going to ocassionate it's downfall? (and with it most of the world) or that people like us will change this and lead the human race to a new era of prosperity and peace with the help of ai, mental tools, biotech and nanotech?

well just to conclude another VERY LONG post I'd like to say that I think that prohibition is something that is not just against human rights and harms our society very much (a lot more than the things they are prohibiting) it also stifles scientific research, society evolution and many other things, and that is really worrisome that the most powerful country in the world, that unfortunately dictates most of what is done and said in the world, is showing these trends

Ironically here in mexico, we have a goverment as ruthless and corrupt as the american one or worse (I shiver to the thought of our goverment having the influence over the world as the american one), and even though the people tends to be more religious, conservative and superstitious than their american equivalents, it tends to have a lot of libertarian tendencies specially mexico city, nothing makes sense here

you see things like cars parked in the middle of street, people smoking pot in public places, guns are prohibited but many people carries them, the goverment "escorts" rioters, people evading millions of dollars in taxes it is indeed as Dali said, the most surreal city in the entire world :)

our police is pretty much ineffective and corrupt, but even with all that, we don't have the levels of crime, addiction or violence that are seen in most of the industrialized world, and serial killers or kids who kill their peers are rarely seen, even tho this is changing :(

WOW this day I've really rambled, I suppose I'm making up for being a lurker in this list for all the time I've been here, hope you enjoy!!!