Re: Should we be developing nonlethal means of self-defense?(wasre:violence)

den Otter (
Sun, 03 Oct 1999 01:29:29 +0100

> From: Michael S. Lorrey <>

[UV laser taser]
> This sounds like a great way to make the taser more of a longer range
> device.

Yes, and it should be easier to engage multiple targets too. No more (single use) wires, just point and fire 'till your out of juice. Quick reloading shouldn't be a problem either; just slam in a fresh magazine-shaped battery and you're ready to go. Very neat.

> > [dart guns]
> The problem with the shotgun blast idea is that the spreading
> phenomenon. Round lead shot does spread, but not by much because of its
> ballistic stability and simple aerodynamics. Needles, on the other hand,
> would generate much more drag (more surface area to a given mass) than
> can be overcome by inertia, and there will be more chaotic turbulence,
> causing much greater spreading. It might even be so bad that the shooter
> might hit himself with one or two needles looping around.

That would be nasty indeed. Perhaps the good old single-heavy- needle approach (used to sedate wild animals) is still the best. Or, as a compromize, you could fire 2-5 medium-sized projectiles at once.

> WARNING: Potentially graphic descriptions of violence:
> CIA typically relies on rohypnol, pentathol, and the other reliables
> when it wants its victims intact. They usually only do this when they
> want to either help someone defect, or to interrogate or reprogram a
> targeted person. If they want to put the prisoner back where he came
> from afterward (i.e. no visible marks), they will use a sensory
> deprivation chamber, with hydrophones on the victim, for a period of
> several hours.

Hydrophones? I suppose you don't mean the notorious head drip method (allegedly also very effective)?

> When it wants them dead they apply an agent that causes a heart attack
> (if they want it to appear natural), or they will use a device that a
> freind of mine (a former intelligence man) has an example of. Its
> similar to that needle weapon that the chameleon alien assasin uses on
> X-files, only it has a CO2 cartridge inside the handle, and the needle
> is hollow, so when the victim is stabbed, the CO2 cartride discharges
> through the needle and fills the victim with several cubic feet of gas.
> A puncture in the thigh will cause the gas to go throught he femoral
> artery to the heart and stop the heart, collapse the lungs, and concuss
> the victims brain. A hit to the torso will cause the lungs and heart to
> come out the victims' mouth, and his brains to come out his ears.

Interesting! I suppose you could make projectiles that do more or less the same. Make the gun air-powered and it won't even be considered a weapon in many countries. Perhaps one of the most sophisticated methods to kill someone is by means of electromagnetic pulses. I once read somewhere that "the passage of approx. 100 milliamperes of directed frequency through the myocardium can lead to cardiac arrest and death". If this effect could be achieved at some distance, and with fairly quick and reliable results, you'd have quite a weapon. No traces, no sound, no evidence. A big version could wipe out hundreds (or more) of people at once. Move over, neutron bomb; this weapon could leave cities perfectly intact while "neutralizing" their residents.