Re: Re" Child Abuse (Was Re: Is the death penalty Extropian?)

Zenarchy (
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:51:07 -0800

>> From: Michael Somers <>
>>> If you persist in this completely insane, and frankly offensive diatribe
of an
>excuse you call a philosophy, you can expect this to be my first and last
>to your posts. Frankly, I'm just as surprised the more libertarian list
>haven't eaten you for breakfast yet!<<
>Hmm, that certainly struck a nerve. I wonder why...Anyway, perhaps the
>libertarian list members don't have much to say on this topic, it being
>an unpleasant but inevitable side-effect of deregulation. Your post, or
>rather flame, certainly didn't offer any practical alternatives.

I noticed exactly the same phenomenon, den. Maybe the inability to provide viable solutions triggers some brains to become confrontational instead of collaborative.

A review of the Extropian Principles reveals nothing to preclude the exclusion of abusive parents. Nor do I find anything there to contradict or disallow the recommendations den has offered (per se) concerning remedies for the present plague of child abuse in Western civilization. For my part, I think that one Extropian child has more value than all the Libertarian pedophiles and child molesters in the universe. Nothing seems more entropic to me than to allow mentally ill child abusers to breed like rabbits.

The death penalty for child abusers (and child molesters, and child murderers)? No, because they probably learned the behavior from their own parents. So to end the cycle simply requires surgical and/or chemical procedures to render offenders incapable of further infecting the human meme pool. Or perhaps some kind of de-programming project -- but that smacks of Mind Control.

Another problem for Extropians relates to identifying child abusers, since most of it occurs in private behind closed doors and away from the public eye. We often don't find out about it until the abused child grows up to commit some hideous crime. It doesn't seem likely that anyone who wants to sweep aside the issue of child abuse can honestly claim adherence to Extropian Principles.

Obviously freedom-loving people don't want to tolerate intrusive government action in the area of child care. Janet Reno's flame throwing tanks don't bring comfort to many Americans, after all. So, while Extropians need not support government intervention in regard to child abuse, when abusive parents begin to organize, or to hide behind the facade of a political party, then perhaps Extropian Principles should extend to stating the Extropian position on this. The problem remains, how do you determine if someone carries the toxic meme of child abuse, and what do you do when you find it?

>> My response (flame):
>> I first take offense at your use of the word "evil" which is got to be
one of the
>most loaded and overused words of any 'religious' system. Your use of it
>> of a pre-ordained sense of moral righteousness and religious upbringing.
I don't
>care if your an atheist or not - it has become obvious that you have all of
>> markings of a religious zealot of the highest order - which I think the
rest of
>your post will bear out.
>Jada, jada. If you have some kind of religious hangup with the word "evil",
>than that's too bad for you. Most other people will agree that someone
>who kills/rapes/otherwise harms innocent victims for his own pleasure
>is "evil". If such a person comes from a loving family, never had any
>(serious) traumatic experience etc. than the logical conclusion is he
>was "born evil". Do you have any better ideas?

Please excuse me for butting in again, den. Perhaps /evil/ and /sick/ have equivalent memetic loading. I mean some people take exception to the term /evil/ (I do myself), and some take offense at the word /sick/. Nevertheless, almost everyone agrees that child abuse manifests sickness and wrongness. Rather than argue about it, why not try to find out if child abusers do in fact have some congenital propensity to commit this crime?? Doesn't that seem more constructive, if not entirely extropic?

This does not require government intrusion. It requires that communities get to know themselves and cooperate with tests to find out who among them has this illness. A huge barrier to solving the problem of child abuse centers on the fact that women commit most of it, and that does not sit well with the politically correct feminestablishment. Male feminist pigs deny that large numbers of boys experience traumatic emotional pain due to anti-male policies in primary education and at home. The general consensus has it that little boys can use a little abuse so that they know how it feels. This entropic attitude only serves to perpetuate the problem. Who can doubt that any organization, including Extropy Institute, can long survive unless it provides for the emotional and psychic needs of children.


>Of course, now that you mention it, what *is* the "spontaneous" Extropian/
>Libertarian solution to child abuse? Oh right, you've stated that you won't
>"grant me any responses". How convenient.

People who remain in denial about the scourge of child abuse subvert their own attempts to make a better world. I don't think it helps to call PMS moms "evil", because they probably would prefer an effective treatment for their misbehavior. Nevertheless, to their victims, abusive moms do appear rather bad, and that ain't good. --J. R.