Re: Extropian Principles 3.0: Final (?) version now up

Robin Hanson (
Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:57:29 -0800

J. Maxwell Legg replies to Max More replying to JML:
>> >in the ... The Journal of Transhumanism, the term 'economic growth'
>> >relies on capitalism and a price system which to my way of thinking
>> >are at odds with a public-AI decentralised data fusion, Survey Society.
>> ... "Economic growth" means no more than an increase in the total
>> measurable output of an economy. It does not specify how that economy
>> is organized.
>Let me quote ...
>Robin Hanson's JOT ABSTRACT
> "Economic growth is determined by the supply and
>demand of investment capital; "
>I say: Investment capital and the market price system mean
>only one thing; - money. Although the market system
>is analysed as a negative feedback loop, money has
>been shown to create self re-inforcing positive
>feedback loops of wealth/poverty vicious circles.

Investment capital does not imply "money." Capital is anything that aids in production. Investment is using capital to make more capital, rather than helping people to "consume." The supply of investment capital is capital that those who control it are willing use to invest, rather than consume. The demand for capital is the investment projects that are available.

We can say that there won't be much investment if those who control capital insist it all be used to help consumption. Similarly, investment won't do much good if there aren't projects available which have a decent change of producing more capital. We can say these things and more without invoking concepts of money, markets, or prices.

>Nigel says:
>... heralding a new transaction-
>based economic system managed by a bevy of global
>artificial intelligence engines.

If those AI engines help us produce more, they are "capital."

Robin Hanson RWJF Health Policy Scholar, Sch. of Public Health 510-643-1884 140 Warren Hall, UC Berkeley, CA 94720-7360 FAX: 510-643-8614