Sssst quiet(!) Don't disturb the signal...

Arjen Kamphuis (
Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:10:27 +0100 (CET)

(Spoken very softly so as not to offend...)

Max wrote:
>>I know this is going to make a lot of persons happy, but I'm quitting if
>>that's the case. A mailing-list whose purpose is to spread information
>>and ideas
>Whoa! That is not and never has been the List's purpose. The list was
>created as a "safe haven" (founder Perry Metzger's words) for discussion
>amongst Extropians without having to pander to the differently-opinioned.

I guess I've misunderstood a thing or two for the last months...
The ultimate medium to-date for fast, cheap and, above all, global meme
spreading but that's not what it's for... (?)

>Outreach can be accomplished through many other means that we already use,
>including the web site (we want to improve it's function in that role),
>local meetings and chapters, appearances in the media, and so on.

Most of those are one-way communication, local meetings can be tough with a
couple of hundred persons dispersed accross the four corners of the globe
(never understood that expresion). The beauty of this list is that anyone
can ask a question and get answers from persons who often have more
knowledge and/or a more refined opinion on a subject (or just different,
that can be educational too - trust me, I know ;-).

Of course there's nothing wrong with having a members-only club for
high-level, civilized, discourse. But the fringe movement of
Transhumanism/Extropianism will then be just that, a fringe movement if
most members only talk to each other in the 'private' room. Fringe, as in:
unknown by the overwhelming majority and therefore often misunderstood and
without much support (financial or otherwise).

That would be a great loss and waste of many good, constructive idea's.

We (The_Organisation_Still_Known_As_Excedo ;-) honestly believe that
everything we do must be about meme _spreading_ at this stage, both here in
Europe and everywhere else in the World. How many Transhumanists worldwide
belong to some kind of organisation? 2000? Who would take us seriously? If
we want to be in a position to actively change certain things, like
legalizing cyronics in Holland for instance (from what I hear many
Extropians would like to change a thing or two...), we must have thousands
of members. By constanty being prepared to educate anyone who seeks to
understand, by being as open to criticall questions as we possibly can be
(even if the other party is 'unreasonable' - especially then, in fact).

I'm using all the "we's" because I feel all will benefit from global
cooperation in some form, no need to reinvent the wheel on every continent.
ExI has already done great stuff, but with only 300 (?) members after 10
years (orso - and yes, I know, Excedo is peanuts even compared to that) a
lot of work remains.

I would like to have a list were everyone can participate, ExI certainly is
under no obligation to provide such a medium but I think many active
non-members would leave if they cannot particiate. That would mean
breaking-up one of the largest and most active Transhumanist lists in the
world. Those who leave would miss-out on things done on this list and ExI
members would miss-out on other points-of-view (and it is my feeling that
most Extropians are open-minded and interested in other views).

Personally I would have no problem with paying a fee to ExI but I would
like to have insight in how these funds are being allocated (both
stockholders and taxpayers have that right I believe). Also I would like
specific information on ExI's organisational structure and who is in what

How about access to the Euro-list Max? Will that remain free and open? Or
should we compensate ExI for the cost of hosting an additional list?

Arjen Kamphuis

In all honesty I must admit that I'm very curious who the 24 people are
whose posts go to a /dev/null. And on what basis they were selected.

Arjen Kamphuis | Learn as if you will live forever. | Live as though you will die tomorrow.