RE: New website: The Simulation Argument

From: Emlyn O'regan (
Date: Sun Dec 09 2001 - 18:11:55 MST

Eugene wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Samantha Atkins wrote:
> > Isn't there a bit of a problem there? We have these theories about
> > how universe[s] come to be. If we encounter critical parameters
> > necessary for us to be which are therefore required of this universe
> > and those theories do not adequately explain or tend to
> then either we
> > are a very lucky and even more unlikely fling of the dice
> or we exist
> > in a designed universe (sim). The argument and possibility does not
> > go way by just using those two words.
> We might be a very lucky and unlikely coincidence (observation of the
> night sky even with the naked eye will tell you that), but
> the fact of our
> existance is an extremely biased sample of one. The probability of you
> observing yourself is unity. In absence of another samples. Hence, the
> fact that you're there gives you no other information that
> you're there.
> Which is plenty enough, considering all the other places and
> spacetimes
> where you wouldn't be able to make that observation. (Man, some places
> truly suck).
> This has nothing to do with whether we live in a simulation, though.
> Because we're the measurement device measuring ourselves. A rather
> degenerated experiment.

I don't think this impacts on Nick's arguments at all. Nowhere does he rely
any probability of intelligence arising based on observations of humanity
our relation to the natural universe. He merely depends on the fact that
we do exist, irrespective of how, and that we can, or we think we can, do
certain things (like do strong AI).

In fact, one of the most interesting things about his paper is the
complete avoidance of territory covered by the anthropic principle.


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