Re: the waves of immigration that now plague this nation

From: Robert J. Bradbury (
Date: Wed Oct 17 2001 - 18:51:16 MDT

Ahemmm! I think I will speak to this question.

I believe that I am a 12th generation American citizen (those on
the list who can trump that (native Americans excepted) please
feel free to do so). Rafal, would I believe, be considered a
0th generation American. Yet I find myself siding more with
Rafal than with Randy.

The "Extropian Game" is *NOT* "horde the wealth". The Extropian
Game is to spin the wheel and promote complexification. Randy's
points are ill-suited for the Extropian list unless he makes a
clear and falsifiable arugment that the admission of "educated"
immigrants over "uneducated" immigrants will clearly promote
a greater rate of complexification.

Sure, there are arguments that admitting half-a-billion people
with less than a high-school education is likely to reduce the
USA to chaos and bankrupt us. And there are arguments that
excluding people like Rafal (no offence Rafal) could be beneficial
because that would presumably make physicians scarcer, driving
up their salaries that would be invested in mutual funds that
would promote capital formation in the economy. Lord knows,
those waves of uneducated, illiterate masses would be incapable
of such sophisticated actions that promote capitalism and
complexification. Thus we end up in Randy's position that
allowing the immigration of people like Rafal but denying
the immigration of people with very low skill levels is


Perhaps those uneducated illiterate masses free up enough time
of the educated that they are able to devote more time to the
optimization of their investment portfolios and that serves to
increase complexification.

(No slights intended -- from each according to his or her means to
each according to his or hero skills and desires).

Do we measure ourselves by how much we have or by how much
we have contributed?!? This is a fine line in the Extropian Game.

First there is nobody citing peer-reviewed economic studies
that in any way justify their positions. You are contributing
to the *NOISE* and not to the *DATA*! I'm in the Anders camp
you can link them back to scientific data -- *THAT* is what
extropianism is all about. (I'm willing to listen to speculative
hypothesis but the Subject line (ARE YOU LISTENING PEOPLE?)
should read:
   SPECULATIVE HYPOTHESIS: US should only allow educated immigation

DATA (good) EVIDENCE (good) OPINION (bad)! (unless you can back it up)

Randy -- I *challenge* you -- how do you KNOW *they* are witches?


If you can't prove the person is a witch then burn her (or him)
at your own risk (of decomplexification)!

'Nough said.

Assertion: New York city would work much less efficiently without
the Doorpersons of apartment buildings (nobody to recieve packages,
enhance security, facilitate the communication of messages, etc.);
Most Doorpersons are 0th or 1st generation immigrants. It is a
stepping stone position for something better for themselves or
their children. Eliminate immigration and the labor source to
fill these positions and the salary expenses will be driven up
for people to fill these positions (driving up the rent or
maintenance fees of people like lawyers, doctors, brokers, etc.
who live in these buildings). Can they afford this? Yes. Does
it optimize the resources available for complexification? A highly
debatable question....

This is based on my own personal experience (a valid DATA citation)
of having lived in New York City from 1974-1981. Your experience
may differ -- if so detail it.


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