Re: religious singularity?

From: Amara Graps (
Date: Sat Oct 06 2001 - 11:27:01 MDT

From: J. R. Molloy (, Wed Oct 03 2001

From: "Anders Sandberg" <>
>> Sufism is definitely linked with Islam.

>It is the offspring... and the parent has died.

Sufism would be an "offspring" of Islam, only in the Sufi's definition
of Islam (what you write below). Then it fits: it follows with their
ideas of "transmutation", that is, Sufism as a 'nutrient' for society,
and to then transmute and disappear, leaving alterred traces only.

>"To the Sufi, Islam means surrender and love. An organic
>transformation and combination of two qualities, which creates a
>third. The sage is the burgeoning of two kinds of energy. In the
>definition of the Sufi, he is balanced, without any duality, and his
>wholeness is unified; there is a silent tranquility about him. There
>is no longer any conflict or antagonism going on in him. He is not
>torn between sin and saintliness. There is a sublime peace
>and equilibrium, a cosmic silence. That's what Sufis call _islam_.
>I know, because a wise old Turk once told me so."
>--Alligator Grundy

Nice. Compare with, to the Muslim, "Islam" (an Arabic word meaning
submission and surrender) is complete submission to Allah. By the way,
the Sufis have a different interpretation than the Muslims of the
concept "Allah", as well.

A traditional Sufi story:

Four men: a Persian, a Turk, an Arab, ad a Greek were standing in a
village street. They were traveling companions, making for some
distant place; but at this moment they were arguing over the spending
of a single piece of money which was all that they had among them.

"I want to buy angur," said the Persian.
"I want uzum," said the Turk.
"I want inab," said the Arab.
"No!" said the Greek, "we should buy stafil."

Another traveler passing, a linguist, said, "Give the coin to me. I
undertake to satisfy the desires of all of you."

At first they would not trust him. Ultimately they let him have the
coin. He went to the shop of a fruit seller and brought four small
bunches of grapes.

"This is my angur," said the Persian.
"But this is what I call uzum," said the Turk.
"You have brought me inab," said the Arab.
"No!" said the Greek, "this in my language is stafil."

The grapes were shared out among them, and each realized that they
wanted the same thing, and the disharmony had been due to his faulty
understanding of the language of the others.

A Sufi teacher would say that the travelers are the regular people of
the world. The linguist is the Sufi, showing them that they want the
same thing. The Sufi, as a people's "servant", can give a primary
lesson of the fundamental identity, but the true essence and inner
doctrine of Sufism that he/can provide is the wine produced by the


Amara Graps, PhD email:
Computational Physics vita:
Multiplex Answers URL:
     "Trust in the Universe, but tie up your camels first."
               (adaptation of a Sufi proverb)

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat May 11 2002 - 17:44:12 MDT