Lucky science isn't grounded in philosophy, or we'd all be up the creek.
Hopeless.
Emlyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. R. Molloy" <jr@shasta.com>
To: <extropians@extropy.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 11:53 AM
Subject: Philosophy: It doesn't suck so bad we can't ignore it
> From: "zeb haradon" <zebharadon@hotmail.com>
> > Thesius's ship should be preserved, since it is a peice of Greek
> > history. They keep it docked, but it starts to decay. Every time a peice
> of
> > wood decays even a bit, it is replaced with a freh board. Eventually,
> every
> > board has been replaced. Is it still Thesius's ship? If no, at what
point
> > was it no longer that ship? When did it lose it's "Thesius's ship"-ness?
>
> It is still Thesius' ship. If you want to know how, observe the workers
> replacing the decayed boards with fresh boards. If you want to know when
and
> where, pay attention to these details. If you want to know whose ship it
is,
> find Thesius' descendents and heirs. If you want to know why, you're a
> philosopher, and Thesius probably wouldn't want you on the ship.
>
> > Furthermore, a scrap dealer stumbles upon all the semi-rotting wood
which
> > has been removed from Thesius's ship. He takes it, and, since it's not
> > completely rotten, he actually assembles a ship from it, he has
> re-assmbled
> > Thesius's original ship. He docks it next to the first ship. Which one
is
> > really Thesius's ship?
>
> If you were paying attention to the how, and where, and when, and whose
> relating to Thesius' ship, then you'd know that Thesius (or his
> preservationist descendents, if he's dead) still has his reconstructed
ship,
> and that the scrap dealer has the rotten original ship. No mystery there.
>
> None of this requires philosophy. It just needs observation, direct
> experience to verify facts, and empirical evidence to ascertain correct
> identities.
>
> > Someone came to give a philosophy talk at the college I went to and
argued
> > that they both are, and that this teaches us something about objects and
> > space. His hypothesis was that this proves that an object can be in two
> > places at the same time. Amazing! Thesius's ship was in two places at
the
> > same time, docked right next to eachother.
>
> That helps to explain why some people call it "fool-osophy."
>
> > The reason this peice of philosophy is valuable is because it takes
> "common
> > sense" hidden assumptions about the nature of objects and applies it to
a
> > problem, which leads to a nonsensical result and shows that the common
> sense
> > assumptions about objects, the premises by which most people think about
> > objects, are false. If you're a good philosopher, you're going to figure
> out
> > why these wrong questions are the wrong questions.
>
> Nice try, but no kewpie doll. This piece of sh... excuse me, this piece
of
> philosophy is worthless because it pretends to offer solutions, but
> (un)common sense reveals more valuable information. The advantage of
> (un)common sense (sense is really not that common) is that it doesn't lead
> to nonsensical results. When you come to your senses (stop
philosophizing),
> things look much more clear. If you're a good philosopher, you'll keep
> asking the wrong questions to insure that you don't run out of work.
>
> To me, science is the most uncommon kind of sense. Especially 21st century
> science, because it requires the greatest precision and accuracy in
> empirical experiments that humans have ever attempted. I mean, super
> colliders and space telescopes are fairly uncommon. You need hardware to
do
> science.
>
> This reminds me of an Edelman story. Apparently the science department was
> in trouble because it had such a huge expense account. The math department
> bragged that it only needed chalk, paper, and a few waste paper baskets.
But
> the philosophy department did even better. They didn't even need waste
> baskets. Get it? The philosophers didn't throw out their wrong questions.
>
> Stay hungry,
>
> --J. R.
> 3M TA3
>
> =====================
> Useless hypotheses: consciousness, phlogiston, vitalism, mind, free will
>
>
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