Michael M. Butler, <butler@comp-lib.org>, writes (quoting Hal):
> > The problem with "I am a member of a civilization" is that it doesn't say
> > whether the civilization is good or bad.
>
> Yes, it is true that, taken by itself, then notion is so boiled down as
> to be too value free. How about "I am a member of an increasingly
> enlightened planetary civilization"? Welp, it sounds awful prissy and
> NWO; besides, the Nazis probably thought that too.
This one is better, because it also raises the question, what is it
about our civilization which entitles it to be called "increasingly
enlightened", and what can we do to make sure it continues to head in
the right direction. Well, one of the things we can do is to defend
the values which we believe lead to enlightment.
I would suggest that one such important value is recognizing each person
as an individual and not part of a class. This is partially associated
with traditionally "conservative" values of freedom of opportunity
and absence of economic barriers. But it also is seen in "liberal"
movements like civil rights and equality for women. Where once a person
was judged by race and sex, we now try to look past those characteristics
and see the person within. These are among the traits that most represent
enlightment to me.
> > > Principles *are* important. One principle that's important is not to
> > > burn the barn down while the horse is still inside.
> >
> > I don't follow what that means in this context.
>
> It's an old saw that cuts both ways. In this case, I meant that
> premature polarization (enemy talk) can cost you. Brin might not be as
> useful to your goals as an enemy as he might be as a grudgingly
> respected gadfly with whom you have piquant disagreement.
Perhaps so. However I have been debating David Brin on these matters in
email and in public since 1994. All I have accomplished (if anything)
is to help him craft his message more seductively. His goals don't seem
to have changed.
Hal
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon May 28 2001 - 09:50:32 MDT