**Next message:**hal@finney.org: "Re: Perpetual motion via entropy disposal (was Re: effective perfection)"**Previous message:**J. R. Molloy: "Re: greens"**In reply to:**Eliezer S. Yudkowsky: "The mathematics of effective perfection"**Next in thread:**hal@finney.org: "Re: The mathematics of effective perfection"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Eliezer S. Yudkowsky <sentience@pobox.com> Wrote:

* > The Turing diagonalization argument proves that absolute self-knowledge is
*

* > impossible,
*

True.

* >Nonetheless, if a transhuman can have "effectively perfect" self-knowledge
*

I don't see how. Tomorrow you might find a proof of the Goldbach Conjecture

and prove it true, or tomorrow you might find a counterexample and prove it false,

or it might be Turing unprovable, meaning it's true so you'll never find a counterexample

to prove it wrong but a finite proof does not exist so you'll never find a way to

prove it's correct. You might not find a proof or a counterexample, not in

a year, not in a million years, not in 10^9^9^9 years, not ever. You won't

even know your task is hopeless so you might just keep plugging away at the

problem for eternity and make absolutely zero progress. We don't know even

approximately how this might turn out because we can't assign meaningful

probabilities to the various possible outcomes, we don't know and can't know

what if anything our mind will come up with. I just don't know what I'm going to

do tomorrow because I don't understand myself very well, and the same would

be true if I was a chimp or a human or a Transhuman.

John K Clark jonkc@att.net

**Next message:**hal@finney.org: "Re: Perpetual motion via entropy disposal (was Re: effective perfection)"**Previous message:**J. R. Molloy: "Re: greens"**In reply to:**Eliezer S. Yudkowsky: "The mathematics of effective perfection"**Next in thread:**hal@finney.org: "Re: The mathematics of effective perfection"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

*
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30
: Mon May 28 2001 - 09:50:31 MDT
*