Re: GUNS: Why here?

From: Chuck Kuecker (
Date: Tue Oct 10 2000 - 17:37:21 MDT

At 03:08 PM 10/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
>The Turner Diaries is a neonazi fantasy about a racist revolution in the
>US, written by William Pierce, head of the National Alliance, under the
>pseudonym of Andrew MacDonlad. It was the template for Bob Mathews'
>organization The Order, which counterfeited money, knocked over armored
>cars, donating the proceeds to among others, the Aryan Nations, and
>assassinated Denver Jewish talk show host Alan Berg, as well as for
>Timothy McVeigh's Oklahoma City Bombing.

Thanks. Now I know not to waste my money there. I enjoy fantasy - but don't
enjoy being sickened by it. The white power types can raise funds elsewhere.

>Why not consolidate the laws to eliminate the interstate disparities which
>fuel interstate gun trafficking, rather than have "20,001 laws!" shouted
>by the NRA?

There needs be only one law - the background check, with swift justice for
anyone who fails it. And I do mean justice - those who are erroneously
rejected should not be hassled unduly.
Unfortunately, this won't stop but some nuts and flakes - the career
criminals and gangbangers will just go to the black market.

But how can a background check be performed unless every individual in the
country has a unique ID that can prove that a person is who they say they
are? We almost have a national driver's license now - and many are afraid
of the added power that gives the govt. to track people. Perhaps a chip
implanted at birth - like the "digital angel"? I can see the fundies lining
up to get their kids "the mark of the beast"...

>Wrong. #1, I'm not interested in the gun shows being shut down, just for
>all weapons purchased there to require background checks of the buyer;
>this could be done by computer or toll-free telephone. #2, there ARE such
>things as gun shops, gun manufacturers, pawn shops (all of which should
>have their salse subject to background checks of their buyers, also); gun
>shows are not the only place for sane law-abiding adulte to buy guns. #3,
>guns are more expensive, heavier and bulkier (harder to conceal) than
>pills, powders or joints, they cannot be used without people noticing
>(even with silencers, there's the whole death thing), and they do not grow
>on bushes, shrubs or trees, nor are they easy to make (and a zip gun is no
>match for even a cheap .22).

Silencers don't really silence any more than a truck muffler makes a
Peterbilt a stealth vehicle. They just cut out the sharp "crack" that can
damage your hearing. Silencers would be required by a government really
concerned with health and safety of its' citizens. But - what can you
expect of a government that makes commercial grain alcohol undrinkable by
adding deadly poison?

More and more, gun stores are being legislated and zoned out of existence.
The thrust of HCI and Sarah Brady is nothing less than complete
disarmement. She has been quoted quite a few times as saying exactly that -
so don't expect any thinking person to believe anything HCI publishes. The
facts are inextricably mired in with the outright lies.

Again - from HCI's site you posted:

Assault weapons were usedÖ

                          To kill 5 children and wound 29 others in a
Stockton, CA schoolyard in 1989. The AK-47 held 75 - thatís right, 75 -

Wow. 75! I know where to get a 100 - round mag to fit an AK. Not cheap, but
legal. And it makes the already large and obvious AK look like something
Arnold would carry. Not stealthy.

                          To kill 8 people and 6 others at a San Francisco
law firm in 1993. Two TEC-9ís with 50-round magazines were used in the

If you limit mag size, the baddies will just fill their pockets with more

                          To kill 2 CIA employees and wound three others
outside Langley, VA headquarters in 1993

This was a former CIA type, was it not? A falling out amongst thieves!

                          To kill 4 ATF special agents and wound 16 others
with an arsenal of assault weapons at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco,
TX, when the officers were attempting to serve warrants on
the cult in 1993

The ATF fired first - the people inside defended themselves. It's still not
proven just who shot who - some accounts have the ATF firing wildly through
smoke, hitting their own people.
ATF are tax collectors. If we need an "assault weapons" ban, it should be
for these goons. If a taxman needs armed backup, let them call in the cops
or federal marshals.
It's funny how it becomes a "cult" because HCI needs to make their point,
isn't it?

They forgot the infamous shootout in California where a couple of thugs
with AKs and SKSs shot the hell out of the cops - the cops needed to go
into a gun store for arms! This was what prompted the Ca. bans. But if they
mentioned that one, they would have had to acknowledge that the cops got
civilian "assault rifles" at the store and were able to turn the tables
with them. Not the point HCI wanted to make, I guess.

If you add up all the "mass shootings" and compare them to the atrocities
committed by police and govt. agents in the same time period, I bet you
come out about even. Got to look into that...

>The armed guard at Littleton was no help, but I would prefer that only
>guards be armed. Otherwise, since people do flip out occasionally, there
>would be a greater chance that the occasionally postalgoing teacher would
>find him/herself with a gun and a lot of little targets.

Incompetent guard, then. Probably like the on-duty cop at my high school in
Chicago in the '60's - in the lunchroom with the cooks, mooching food. Of
course, back then, the ROTC had rifle drill with real M1 Garands, and
target shooting with air rifles. The biggest thing the cop had to do was
break up an occasional fistfight.

Last "postal" teacher I heard of shot HERSELF to gain publicity about the
"problem" of guns in schools.

| There is one I've heard of; I think it was the Pearl, Mississippi
shooting, where an assistant principal had a gun. Here in Pensacola, we
had a teacher's car broken into in the school |parking lot and her gun
stolen. Walking around 180 days a year arould a thousand little hands with
your piece on your hip is not a good idea for most teachers either.

Yep, that's one. Another was a hall owner who stopped a student with a gun
from shooting a group of kids at the hall. He had a shotgun behind the
counter. Ohio, if I am not mistaken.

Metal lockboxes are available for auto use - they bolt through the floor,
and are virtually theftproof unless the thief has a torch or cutoff saw.
Responsible gun owners don't leave weapons unsecured in a vehicle.

Admittedly, carrying a gun is not for everyone. But what about the "Officer
Friendly" who comes in armed and ready? Perhaps we should teach the kids
from kindergarten on about gun safety. Namely - NRA's Eddie Eagle - "Don't
Touch! Leave the area! Tell an adult!". Give them a fighting chance. As
long as there are guns, there's a risk. We teach them about STDs...

Kids who grow up with guns in the overwhelming majority grow up to never
point one at another human being. Harris and Klebold are among the few -
outnumbered millions to one.

There are some little kids that were effectively killed recently by the
State of California's child safety law - when the naked guy with the
pitchfork broke in, the oldest child could not unlock Daddy's gun to
attempt to defend her siblings. I hold the lawmakers responsible for this
kind of incident.

Here in Illinois, the first kid killed by an improperly stored gun after
the child protection law took effect was the child of a Cook County
Sheriff's deputy. The sheriff now has ordered all his men to keep their
service guns locked up whenever they are at home. So now the crooks in Cook
County know that it's safer to break into a cop's home than a plain old
citizen's - the cop, by law, can't have protection available.

Stupid, well-meaning laws.

>The reference to 52 Queens is from the movie "The Manchurian Candidate",
>where the sight of a red queen was the trigger to activate brainwashed

Thanks. Need to get that from Blockbuster - never watched it, always wondered..

Chuck Kuecker

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