Citizenship [was Re: kathryn's comments]

Robert J. Bradbury (
Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:27:29 -0700 (PDT)

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Michael S. Lorrey wrote:

> ... which is why the schools are all gun free zones these days (they
> didn't used to be),

Ah yes, lets give the teachers guns so they can defend themselves from the students. Or were you suggesting that the students have them so they can take out their aggressions with lethal weapons instead of the more common fists? I'll suggest a compromise -- Rules of engagement of the royalty -- if you feel insulted you slap the other persons face with a glove and then cross foils after class....

> You should only be a citizen if you
> actually know, understand, and ACCEPT the values and mechanisms by which
> our government operates. Take the same vow to "protect and defend the
> Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign AND
> domestic," that immigrants and military officers and enlistees take.

Now here, Michael does take up an interesting point. Reviewing an old post involving how to "Own your Name" using the uniform commercial code (a very complex post to be sure), I did some investigation into citizenship. Two things seem to be true: (a) That children when they "Pledge alliegence to the flag of the

      United States of America" clearly have no understanding of what
      this *really* means [so it is brainwashing].
  (b) U.S. Citizens appear to be free to "renounce" citizenship
      at any time to a "representative" (Judge/Immigration officer?)
      of the United States.

Two questions arise.
(1) Has (a) ever been tested under the kind of "informed consent"

principles that govern medical procedures. (2) If you execute (b), and become a stateless citizen, are you

      still able to legally work in the U.S. (or must you obtain
      a Green Card)?

Then of course, the question for all the "Libertarians" out there is, if you object to government so much, why haven't you executed plan (b)? If you were to execute (b), is there a country that is preferable to declare oneself a citizen of?

Mind you, I can think of one direct benefit of citizenship which is that the country will extract or defend you from circumstances which are highly hazardous in foreign countries.