SOC: PHI: for genetic tech

Clint O'Dell (
Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:54:09 MDT

> > Humans are only potential ultrahumans.
> >
> > Many characteristics can be changed during their development.
> > Changes that can turn them into something completely different.
> > A human hasn't a fully functional brain and therefore can't have an
> > identity.
> >
> > Research on humans is worth while because we can learn so much.

I laughed when I read this and I'm still going to defend my position.

A human embryo doesn't have memories to associate an identity with. A human on other hand does.

I agree with you completely though too. Research on humans is worth while because we can learn so much. But even there I'm not without morals. Because humans have an identity and can communicate their wishes with us we wouldn't want to put them through anything we wouldn't want to be put through, unless given their consent. Why? Because it could happen to us.

To fully explain myself I usually find it necessary to explain my philosophy.

As an atheist I find no religious moral reasons to do or not do anything. Instead I base my morals from my definitions of good and bad. Good being anything that you would want to (and can) happen to you. And bad being anything that you don't want to (and can) happen to you. Also I look at the consequences of such things happening.

Practical Application Example.
Lets say a five year old was brutally murdered by his mother. I would consider that to be bad because at one point I was five, and if I were to be brutally murdered by my mother (or anyone) it would be undesirable for these reasons.

1)It would probably be painful
2)At age 5 I have already experienced life and may desire more of it
3)I would go through psychological terror as it occurred
4)It may not matter after I'm dead, but it matters at the moment    because 
I'm alive and feeling it.
| I thought I would add that last part in there for some people
| believe that because an atheist doesn't believe in a life after
| death, it doesn't matter what happens when your alive. Eventually
| everyone dies. Creating a chain of meaningless life.  I agree of
| course but its like I said, "It may not matter after I'm dead, but
| it matters at the moment because I'm alive and feeling it."
| And to add, "living forever is one way to give life meaning"

Now you should have a fairly good grasp at my philosophy. Now I'll apply it to the discussion at hand. Studies on embryos without the embryos consent.

Practical Application with Human Embryo Experiments. Lets say I'm an embryo. An embryo that is to be tested and then discarded never having the chance for life.
This is a real situation. It could of happened to me. So do I consider that good or bad? Neither. I'm indifferent. Here's why.

1)It wouldn't be painful
2)I wouldn't go through any psychological terror as it occurred
3)At age embryo I wouldn't have experienced life and would have no    desire 
to experience it. I have no knowledge of it. 4)I don't have an identity yet because I don't have any memories or experiences to make up my identity yet.
The consequence of such a thing happening to me is that I wouldn't be given a chance to experience all the things that humans get to experience. That doesn't matter to something that doesn't know about or hasn't thought of those experiences. It isn't missing anything.

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