The textropian timeline, courtship in the future, cryonics and misc. thoughts

john grigg (
Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:21:31 PDT

Hello everyone,

I perused the Textropian timeline and was very impressed. As a teen I thrilled to the timeline developed by Arthur C. Clarke. There are other charts like this out there on the net but to have one from the extropian point of view is exciting. The list did perhaps frighten me a little by showing how much the world will have changed when I am fifty-one years old. But I should not fear but instead embrace such wondrous change. So many would avoid death or have such better lives if only we had 2020 level medtech right now. I had a knee jerk reaction at first thinking that some of these technologies would be farther off then twenty years but then I reconsidered. Actually isn't all of this suppose to be here by next year?? LOL! I want to make it around campus with my packback rocket made by Martin-Marietta/Jansport!

I would love to see the timeline expanded to the year 2050! I would urge the Textropians to consider this down the line. I realize that to look beyond a twenty year span is much harder and less concrete. But some of these technologies I do not see maturing by 2020 such as humanlike robots, complex VR worlds, advanced molecular manufacturing, transhuman AI's and nuclear fusion. I would love to see a cure for AIDS and all cancers by 2020 but is it realistic to hope for such?

I have been fascinated by the conversations about male and female sexual strategies. I see some definite changes down the road within the next fifty to a hundred years.

Women are only partially free from the fear of pregnancy at present. But by the late 21st century or much earlier there should be almost zero chance of pregnancy. Females may even be modified in vitro so that they are born sterile and later in life when ready the condition is reversed at government expense. I've read that it is only in relatively recent history (last several millennia) that women due to diet and lack of intense exercise could get pregnant in the early teens.

Imagine the second sexual revolution that will result when STD's are finally defeated! Of course this will probably happen in increments but still it will result in at least for five to ten years a period of great sexual promiscuity like the sexual revolution of the late sixties and early seventies. Women of the mid 21st century will at least in terms of physical health be free to do as they wish. I would think that over time people would settle down to relative monogamy seeing the shallowness of very short-term sexual relationships.

Even in a world without damaged bodies from promiscuity there will be broken hearts and tormented minds. Will we just medicate to deal with the pain of this? Having had my own heart broken I admit I might be tempted to take a legal prescription of soma. Rather then being blissed out I just want those neurochemicals that herald loss to be blocked. But the youth of every generation would be much more promiscuous in sowing their wild oats till they matured and settled down a bit. I think that old strategies hardwired into us will still be quite dominant.

Of course infidelity is somewhat commonplace in even our present culture that has the hazards of STD's and possible pregnancy. And the rates of infidelity would obviously climb with the two big fears out of the way.

And a world full of near immortals who are forever young will be quite an amazing thing. I see how presently people go a little nuts trying to eek out the last remaining fun they can from youths that do not last forever because we live in a youth obsessed world. When people have forever or nearly so to achieve their goals I tend to think they will be more laid back rather then frantically always trying to get their fun as many do today.

I have noticed how woman in their thirties and especially forties do tend to go away from the "programming" of mate selection and do it more on personality and heart as opposed to looks and money which is so keenly valued by most younger women. But I think that even in an extropian utopia women will still be attracted to powerful and wealthy men.

One of the great unfairnesses of our time is how both physical beauty and high intelligence are passed out so unfairly. In our current society a relative few are "beautiful" in the accepted way and have the attention showered on them. In a world where all are beautiful we will have to look beyond just the physical in my opinion. I have had too many female friends who felt inferior because they were not as attractive physically as they wanted to be. I am in this boat myself as a male. Yes, I agree with someone here who once said to me that even in a world where all are good-looking there will be that something extra that will make a few stand out and be extra attractive to others. But at least the playing field in this area will be much more even.

Imagine a world where all women are beautiful (yes, I do believe there is beauty in all people but you know what I mean). In time people would just grow jaded to it while we the reanimated would remember the old days when some were even ostracised for not being attractive enough.

Intelligence in our world is more then ever a key factor in a person's success both professionally and in dating and mating. Again this genetic gift is not given out equally. I agree that environment and hard work play a big part but not as big as genetic inheritance. I have seen people and especially women in bad conditions socially and economically where I believe that if they were actually more intelligent (not just worldly wise but a real I.Q. improvement) they would be so much more able to break out of a bad situation.

I feel that every future child should be upgraded at least to a certain level so they will be able to compete successfully. But then again the island inhabited by only alpha class humans in "Brave New World" comes to mind as a possible warning against that. This will probably come out of free-market competition as parents want the best for their offspring. Of course this will confer on the well to do the power of literally making their children better then those of the middle and lower middle classes and will create possibly huge social strife down the road.

Marriage I believe will always be with us though in differing ways. I could see how in some cases a marriage between immortals could just atrophy after decades or even centuries! Or with some couples could things always remain fresh as they maintain time apart for growth and renewal? Perhaps we have some present marriages among us that will be this way such as Max and Natasha's's or Robert and Mae Ettinger. Imagine your partner dying after centuries of marriage. Would you want a clone of them with a downloaded personality? Would that really be them or just an excellent copy?

Women today complain of how housework is a huge burden to them and that we men as their partners do not do our share. So when household robots take over the vacuuming, laundry and cleaning in general I think that it will be a huge step forward in domestic peace. Not having the women of the world exhausted from housework will make everyone and especially the men happier.

The other thing that tends to exhaust couples is childcare. A nannybot would be a godsend for so many parents who are worn out and feel trapped and unable to go out occasionally and have a good time. Of course it would take a highly sophisticated and totally reliable robot to take on the task of caring for children. A machine like this would be loved by parents everywhere! But the kids will scream bloody murder when it is time to take their beloved nannybot to the scrapheap! I could see some parents over-relying on this robot to the point that the kids have much more of a bond with the machine then with their own biological parents.

With nanotech, computing, biotech and other advancements the economy should be one of plenty rather then our present one of relative scarcity. I hope that the poverty that many women and children experience now will be eliminated. And hopefully the educational system will be transformed so the untapped potential of many people that is presently wasted will be used.

I am excited about this new breed of women that we will see as the next century passes. She will be free of the fear of pregnancy, STD's, domestic drudgery, lack of education, physical unattractiveness, encroachment of old age and poverty that dogged the lives of so many of her previous sisters who lived earlier. How this new breed of women interacts with men should be interesting to say the least. I guess for all the extropian guys on the list who wished they had better success with women they are hoping that they will do better with the late 21st century women. I just hope I am not reanimated in a world run by militant lesbians! LOL! Actually my dormitory last semester was and they did a good job of things.

This is an exciting time on the cryonics list. The major powers that be such as Saul Kent, Robert Ettinger and Charles Platt are discussing the future of cryonics in the near future and in concrete terms. Not just the technology but how to market it. Great things are brewing there folks!

Saul Kent is still somewhat mum about the full extent of breakthroughs made by 21st Century Medicine because of patents pending. I cannot wait to hear him eventually explain to us just how far the state of the art for cryonics is now. My original understanding was that full brain vitrification had been finally achieved. He announced on cryonet that he is working with Alcor and Cryocare to disperse his advancements to them. It's nice to see a person in cryonics with both the vision, money and inclination to make things happen the way Saul Kent does. Down the road he said he will possible fund a serious marketing campaign but not until the improvements he has developed for cryonic suspension are firmly in place.

I realize this goes back a bit but on the topic of having a libido that burdens one with desire I can sympathize. I am 32 and have similar thoughts and in my case I am single without a sexual partner. Having been raised in a Mormon home where sex outside of marriage and even self-stimulation is considered wrong I have had my own real torments on the subject. Especially since I have never been married.

I am getting out of my 'geeky' phase finally to the point where a few women are interested in me sexually. I wind up in the end at least so far breaking off contact with them though a part of me wants to have a physical relationship with them. I don't know if I could resist the advances of a highly attractive woman for all my supposed desire to do what I have been taught is right. I have met women on the net also who even after seeing my pic said they would be my lover if only I lived closer to them. Being stuck in Alaska and poor keeps me out of alot of trouble! But I have noticed many more Alaskan women posting on the internet classifieds now and have considered writing some.

I'm one of those guys who spent two year's of their lives knocking on doors for my church and should have gone off to a Mormon college right after returning home but I did not and instead opted to work various dead-end jobs for most of the nineties because of a learning disability that hamstrung my confidence. Had I gone to college back then I would have a degree, good job, wife, kids and all that by now which is what I dearly want.

I have found the young women at church to be highly particular but then they have the mating strategy of getting the best male they can find. Mormon girls are the living examples of Darwinian mating strategies!! I think some of these girls are so particular they may never find mates.

I have thought seriously about attending a Mormon school such as Brigham Young University-Hawaii campus or even do a semester at Ricks which is only a two year school. Friends have told me that the women at these schools are much more open to marriage then most places but then what would you expect? LOL! In terms of a social life, a family atmosphere, fairly low costs (it would cost less for me to attend byu-H then my present school here in Alaska!) and a solid education a Mormon school is hard to beat. Of course the honor code is very restrictive and I am beginning to feel the urge to sow my wild oats! But if I can just contain myself it would be well worth it.

I have considered writing some very interesting sounding women in the online personals that live right here in Anchorage. In just a year the number has hugely swelled. Some of these women are rather blunt that they want a sexual relationship which kind of blows my mind but excites me too. I just wonder about contracting STD's also! Other women are more reserved but again without a car and a well paying job at present and being a poor college student I'm not sure how well I would do with any of them. As the old saying goes "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" but I tend to lose my nerve in dealing with women, especially those that I am attracted to.

I was fascinated by Peter Lakbar's words regarding UFO's. I had heard those reports of "flying saucers" over parts of Sweden and Belgium and how they were chased by fighter jets. And as he mentioned there seems to have been a large number of credible witnesses to these visitors or whatever they were. I just cannot dismiss this activity casually.

I personally believe (I do not know for sure) that we are being visited by extraterrestrial and/or extradimensional beings. I agree that many reports are bogus but I do not believe that all are. I believe the testimony of those who came in contact with the craft that crashed at Roswell also.

Until these supposed beings decide to go public which I doubt they will for some time it will be very hard to uncover any overwhelming proof of their existance. I could see how the government would desire to cover things up and may have specific agencies dedicated to doing this.

I read the book "The Day After Roswell" which fascinated me. The author a retired army colonel named Phillip Corso had a very distinguished career in R&D. It is possible that he made the e.t. parts of the book up but he seems a man of integrity. It was his job to figure out how captured enemy machines and technologies worked. He says that over a number of years parts of the downed spacecraft from were brought to him without his knowledge of their true origin
in the beginning. He claims that knowledge gleaned from studying the alien technology was seeded to the commercial sector without their knowing where it came from.

He claims the craft was only a shuttle most likely and that the occupants were genetically engineered to withstand the rigors of space travel and endure radiation levels that would kill us. He said there is still so much about the alien machinery we do not know.

His biggest claims were that the aliens are not too friendly actually but shy away from direct conflict. They are a dying race that need our to make hybrids that will invigorate their species. He claims that the radar guidance devices of the military could interfere with the alien propulsion system and knock down one if it got fairly close and this actually happened once.

Corso even said it was that the pentagon has a time travel research project going on based on the nature of the craft's propulsion system but that it is a one way ride for the agents that go in that so far results in instant death.

Some claim this colonel to make money just jazzed up an otherwise very dull military man's biography to appeal to a wide audience but I still find it hard to believe he would lie about these things though it is possible. But then maybe he is telling the truth but the government knows he won't be taken seriously.

On an interesting note the science-fiction novel "Citizen Termite" is being turned into a motion picture. The plot has the "greys" going public and sharing life-extending biotech among other things with humans to befriend us. They permeate their influence throughout our society even to the point of some of them living among us on Earth.

The book is from the perspective of the alien leader who is very conflicted over his hidden agendas that his own kind want him to perpetrate on humanity. In his own way he does care for us and loves his human/grey hybrid daughter. A hybridization program was allowed as the price of alien aid.

As you could expect the militaries and spy agencies of Earth furiously suspect and plot against the greys. This novel has much more the feel in some ways of a political thriller then a traditional science-fiction novel. I will not ruin the ending for you but this is one of the finest science-fiction novels I have ever read and recommend it to you all. The characterization, plot and world building are all first rate. Even if you think the whole UFO/grey thing is not real you will love this novel. I hope Hollywood does a good job turning it into a film. I will have to keep my fingers crossed on that one. You probably have two years to read the book before the film comes out. With "The First Immortal" who knows at this point!

I enjoyed hearing about the early influences in people's lives that lead them toward extropianism. In my case it was Star Trek the classic series that made such an impression. And of course the later series had a strong effect on me too. I am a huge Babylon 5 fan and see a more fascinating and probably more realistic view of the future their.

"Cosmos" the PBS series written and hosted by Carl Sagan had a powerful effect on me! I watched entranced along with my mother as he did his voyages of discovery in the realm of science and history. I remember my mom commenting on how handsome he was as the camera panned to show his profile for extended periods of time as he looked at the viewscreen! LOL! I have seen the series over and over again and plan on seeing it another time soon.

The Mormon faith that I was raised in actually was an influence on me. Unlike some of you I do believe in God and an afterlife but do not have a perfect knowledge of this and am angry at the unfairness of this world and what it corrected. Anyway, I have already discussed with people here how Mormonism is not extropian even though there are definite similarities. But those similarities were seeds to me. The belief in exalted Humans ever progressing and becoming Gods eventually opened my mind to new concepts. I spent two years in the bible belt being screamed at by many for believing a meme that to them as evangelicals is heretical. In a different time they would have tortured and even killed me for certain.

As a teen and still now to a certain extent I have been a comic book collector. Comics have at their best gone a long way in terms of story, plot and art in the last fifteen years or so. The heroic exploits of the X-Men stirred my heart in adolescence and still do when the writing and art are good. In Professor Xavier and Magneto I see an extropian conflict between good and evil as well as justice, mercy and the desire for revenge. Magneto was not really evil but would not respect the rights of other's for he was filled with anger over the wrongs done to him and his family. Batman's approach to self-improvement is surely extropian as he pushed himself to the limits of his mind and body to fight crime. And of course Tony Stark could be considered the ultimate extropian role-model. Don't we all want to be handsome, extremely brilliant billionaire playboys with our own suit of super-advanced flying battle armor? Of course we do!! If any of you want to be like Sebastian Shaw of the villainous Hellfire Club then I am scared!

As for extropian music nothing comes to mind. But I will say that it is amazing how musical styles and fashions in general seem to come back to haunt us! Any guesses here on whether or not the late 2060's will have resemble the late 1960's?? The drugs will just be better and hopefully safer and the sex by then much safer. Hopefully there will not a 'Nam type war going on between the humans and their renegade A.I.'s that we really could never hope to win! Young men will scream "don't send me to the front, I am immune to aging but not x-ray lasers!!" Somehow with young looking, immortal elders I think the young draftees would want their government leaders to come join them in the fox holes too!

I had my heart set on attending Extro 4. It seems to be developing into a really fantastic event as the previous ones must have been. My tax refund was not what I had hoped so it does not look like it. It will cost me $500 for an expedition from Anchorage to Los Angeles all total. I love my full-time job working with teens but it does not pay the big money that's for sure. Perhaps somehow I can scrape together the money. I wish my permanent dividend check were coming in July instead of October.

I have enjoyed writing down my thoughts. I never actually meant for this to be so long! I look forward to any feedback any of you my have about my various comments. Take care my friends! I hope to somehow see you all at the Extro.


John Grigg

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