Re: Chalenge to Nicholas Bostrom

Nick Bostrom (
Fri, 21 Aug 1998 00:33:11 +0000

Boog aka Colin wrote:

> Nicholas Bostrom wrote>
> : I have evidence indicating that the rumor about the censored
> : post was started by someone who is explicitly out there to harm the
> : ExI. I can't disclose this evidence since it was confided to me in a
> : private email. But let's all simply ignore this rumor.>

> [snip] Either retract that bull or provide us all with your
> evidence.

I really don't want to get involved in this. But I also don't want to unfairly injure anybody's honour. I presume you were the first one to post about the "missing posts"? Let me then make a clarification:

Luckily, the person I was refering to has written back to me after I made it clear to him that I would not guarantee the privacy of his communications if he continued to write to me. So I can now put my cards on the table.

The situation is simply this. I got a messege from Jonathan Grimes, wherein he was jubilant about how easy a time he had had tricking everybody into believing in the censorship rumor. At this stage I thought I should write the four lines quoted above, since I saw that Max and other ExI members were being unfairly accused of censorship, and their webmaster was spending a lot of time trying to restore the missing part of the archive. It would have been wrong of me not to speak up.

It now appears [see quoted letter below] that Jonathan did perhaps not literally "trick" anybody, but perhaps he only encouraged Boog to post about the "censorship". And Boog may have acted in good faith, noticing that he couldn't retrieve Erik's messeges, and wrongly concluded that the ExI had censored them.

This nonsense has wasted enough time. Let's move on to something more fruitful.

Date sent:        Thu, 20 Aug 98 03:49:34 UT
From:             "Jonathan Grimes" <>

To:      Subject:          RE: Legal


[Jonathan quoting himself:]
> Not "Extropy !" the cult with a golden reputation. I can't believe
> how easy it was to trick everyone into saying such incriminating
> things.

I knew you would misinterpret that. Has Mitch Porter contacted you ? Do you want to know what happened between me and Mitch ? Well everything was going great until I started saying that I suspect Extropy is a cult. It is a cult you do realize that don't you ? Well after that he started acting funny. Well Mitch I have been nothing but a great friend to you and I told you lots of fascinating things. I hope you enjoyed stabbing me in the back on that list. You really find out who your friends are in these situations. You do remember all about what happened to Erik. Erik believed it was a cult too and well they just couldn't handle it or so I am told.

The word "trick" is merely a figure of speech.

At no point did I "trick" anyone into saying anything that they DID NOT ALREADY THINK. I can not make people say things they do not already think. It is like an operation where you place a microphone on someone and you get them to reveal the


I know the truth is a hard concept for Extropy to understand.

I think the transhumanist community can not handle the truth about Extropy.

I am now going to tell everyone what Max doesn't want you to know. He fears me like no one else on that list. He is scared to death of engaging me for fear of what I might reveal. It will be revealed.

> I'm appalled to hear this. Please stop this dishonest campaign
> against the ExI immediately. Why do you want to destroy things for
> other people?

This is good advice. I will do it ! I will use an all honest campaign. I don't want to destroy things for other people. You do not know what I know about that organization but I know for a fact because of


that Max has hidden something in the Principal's list and I am about to tell everyone. When I first discovered it I couldn't believe it was true. Do you want me to tell you want it is outright ?

> Please be warned that I do not guarantee the privacy of whatever you
> write to me from now on.

Mitch ?

Best Wishes

Jonathan Grimes

Nick Bostrom
Department of Philosophy, Logic and Scientific Method London School of Economics