This is just a copy

John K Clark (
Fri, 17 Jul 1998 21:34:36 -0700 (PDT)


On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 (Randall R Randall) Wrote:

>>So key to the Randall Test is observing the behavior of other
>>people, exactly the same as in the Turing Test.

>No, closer to say that the "Randall Test" *includes* the Turing Test,
>as it now stands.

If the Turing Test is unsound so is the Randall Test because that is its foundation.


>The fact that a tape recorder can make those sounds, however, does
>not mean that the same processes [consciousness] are going on in the
>tape recorder, since it is a different sort of machine.

But in the real world that's not why people think a tape recorder is unintelligent and unconscious. Most people don't have the slightest idea of how a tape recorder works, much less the human brain, they don't believe a tape recorder is conscious is because it doesn't act that way, in other words they use the Turing Test.

>Since we know, from personal experience, that human brains *can* be
>conscious, and we know that other human brains do cause similar
>sounds to ours, we can assume that they are conscious, and begin our
>study of consciousness with that.

I agree its a reasonable assumption that other people who act intelligently are conscious, its a reasonable assumption that an intelligent robot is conscious too, but a reasonable assumption is not the same as a proof.


>>Where is the spatial location of green, or fast, or the number

>*Certain* locations contain matter with attributes such as these.

Exactly. Right now there is only one location that contains matter with the John Clark attribute, but that might not always be true.

>>That's remembering the past not detecting time,

>They are the same thing.

No, one is subjective and the other objective.

         >>Without senses just how would you detect that I stopped your brain         >>and then restarted it?
         >I don't know that I could.  

Then you couldn't detect time.

                                            John K Clark

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