Re: This is just a copy

Randall R Randall (
Fri, 17 Jul 1998 03:15:54 -0400

On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:00:29 -0700 (PDT) John K Clark <> writes:
>On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 (Randall R Randall) Wrote:
> >If what you say you were thinking matches
> ^^^^^^^
>So key to the Randall Test is observing the behavior of other people,

>the same as in the Turing Test.

No, closer to say that the "Randall Test" *includes* the Turing Test, as it now stands. A better understanding of consciousness might help us avoid even that.

> >what I remember you thinking, the we can safely assume that you


> >thinking that, I think. :) This takes it a step beyond Turing
>It does nothing of the sort. Both tests depend on you making assumptions

>about the connection between certain sounds I make with my mouth and my
>subjective feelings. The assumption could very well be correct, I have a

>hunch they are, but you'll never be able to prove it.

Let me put this another way. We know that people make similar sounds on occasion. We also know that people have similar brains, and that therefore the sounds must be produced by similar processes in those brains. The fact that a tape recorder can make those sounds, however, does not mean that the same processes are going on in the tape recorder, since it is a different sort of machine. Since we know, from personal experience, that human brains *can* be conscious, and we know that other human brains do cause similar sounds to ours, we can assume that they are conscious, and begin our study of consciousness with that.

> >Any *particular* consciousness *must* have a spatial
location.To say
> >that it does not is the same as saying that it doesn't exist
at all.
>Why? Where is the spatial location of green,

There are certainly spatial locations of *particular* greens; say, the green of a certain lawn.

>or fast, or the number eleven?

*Certain* locations contain matter with
attributes such as these.

>Don't these things exist?


> >but I can order my memories by "first" and "last", without any


> >sensory data, so it can detect time.
>That's remembering the past not detecting time,

They are the same thing.

>besides a sequence need not
>specify time, six did not come into existence at a later date than five.

>Without senses just how would you detect that I stopped your brain and
>restarted it?

I don't know that I could.


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