Re: Are guns extropian? (Yes they are)

den Otter (
Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:56:17 +0200 wrote:
> Max M [] wrote:
> >One thing is for shure. For most Europeans this gun debate is a complete
> >turn-off, and can be a very negative factor when reading this list. There is
> >far to much debate on this list concerning guns!!!!

Shit Max, did you have to write that? We already have a severe image problem when it comes to these things :-(

> Which is one reason why I don't think most Europeans understand the
> implications of what we're talking about. Seems to me that guns are the
> litmus test of whether you've really considered the things we talk about
> on this list. If you're scared of people having guns, then how are you
> going to handle nanotech, SIs, etc; technologies which are far more of
> a threat than a wimpy little gun ever will be?

Yes, good point. It is utterly absurd to think that technology and knowledge will eliminate war, suffering and evil. New technology has *always* been used to make more powerful weapons, and intelligence and benevolnence are not specifically linked, just as malice and stupidity aren't specifically linked. Although future technologies don't necessarily have to cause a full-flung armageddon (after all, we still haven't used the nukes), there *will* be plenty of violence around. Certainly if your ambitions include becoming a SI you'd *better* be prepared to fight for it. After all, some of the meansest, smartest and most power-hungry people on the planet will be after the same goal (and I don't think they want to share).

> >Most Europeans doesn't have it and doesn't want it
> >and don't se the gun debate as a problem at all because it doesn't exist and
> >no one miss it.

The gun debate may not/hardly exist around here (due to a brainwashed consensus not unlike the one against (human)cloning -- all the same paranoia, xenophobic, media-manipulated thing), but the *crime problem* _does_ exist. By denying the problem, it won't go away. It's time to toughen up those santctimonious, criminal-loving socialist laws, and get tough on crime. Arming the law abiding citizens is one major step in that direction, as are extensive surveillance networks and (crucial) tough sentences, legalization of victimless crimes and a quick and efficient justice system.

> P.S. And if Europe's so great, why is it that suicide rates are typically
> at least twice as high as America?

Oh, that so? Must be the depressing weather...