Re: The End of Privacy ?

Gerhard Kessell-Haak (
Fri, 03 Jul 1998 13:55:50 +1200

> It's an extropian meme in the US perhaps, due to necessity reasons
> that I would know - I've never lived in the US). I would argue that it isn't
> coutries with more stringent gun laws (and, maybe consequently,
> death rates due to violent crime). Looking in from the outside, it
> to me that the US has found itself in a self-induced positive feedback
> condition. Preventing a country or region from entering this worrying
> state appears to be a more rational course of action - though if you're
> a country lilke the US you may not have much choice but to choose gun
> ownership.

>Looking at the rest of the world from the inside of this 'positive
>feedback condition', I can proudly say that, YES, it is 'self-induced', not
>government induced, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with
>positive feedback when it comes to human liberty. "Extremism in the
>defense of liberty is no vice".... Since extropianism places freedom of
>the individual and responsibility of the individual on the highest pedestal,
>extropians who beleive in the rights of the individual should look at the
>US as being closer to the goal of Unlimited Individual Freedom than most
>of the rest of the world, at least when it comes to defense/protection of
>the individual. Since most of the rest of the world lives in a situation of
>government totalitarianism when it comes to gun ownership, the
>situation of
>'necessity' exists in those other countries, rather than in the US, since
>extropians living in other countries must temper their beleifs for fear of
>conflicting with their local cultural/societal/governmental mores, or being
>found to be in need of 'reeducation' and 'socialization' in their countries
>penal systems....

OK, OK .......... it seems you took the term 'prevent' to mean some form of government, or external, control - which is not what I meant. Look at it from a societal and personal point of view. Personally, I would rather be a member of a society where the * individuals* eschew gun-toting radicalism. For example, here in NZ the police don't wear guns, and the NZ society (ie. the summation of individuals) is generally wary of gun ownership. Most individuals can apply for a gun licence (and will probably get it), its just that most *don't want to* - because *as individuals* they have already seen the effects in the US - and its not a pretty sight.