Re: The Economy Of Plenty

James North (
Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:53:29 -0600

At 08:23 PM 9/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>James North wrote:
>> from Mouse Monitor, sept. 1997 by Robert E. Bauman: "The US Treasury
>> Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) on May 21, in a
>> little-noticed rule proposal, began the government's take-over of all forms
>> of electronic and digital cash in America. For the first time the US
>> government asserted direct control over all so-called financial "stored
>> value systems," defined as "...funds or monetary value represented in
>> digital format (whether or not encrypted) and stored, or capable of storage,
>> on electronic to be retrievable and transferable electronically."
>> (Official text at ) This definition covers
>> so-called "smart cards", online Internet banking and any other cash
>> transactions in electronic form."

Actually, in thinking about the above rule proposal definition, a
(electronic) barter system with, presumably, 'things' (like onions, shoes or
software etc.) being represented in the system as Information Packets (or
Contracts), the "...funds or monetary value..." could perhaps be
circumvented (as inapplicable), no? Anyway, the keys (for me) are :
Private Network based
Globally Decentralised (operation/administration/participation?)
Totally Encrypted Transactions
Anonymous participation (if possible and, eventually, even if necessary)
Strictly Contractual Transactions (with electronic escrow account for
protection OR some sort of Ostracism Matrix for Contract defaulters -- to
insure/assure honesty)
Other things that I haven't thought of yet! :o)

Incidentally, Eliezer (or anyone else), have you considered the possibility
of going beyond barter, or complex-barter, to the source of 'value'
(including things) which I conjecture is, fundamentally, energy? That is to
say, a person is alive *because* of the energy coursing through him or her,
and thier expression of that energy being thoughts (articulated) and things
produced. I'm talking about the possibility of basing 'value' on a
quantifiable accumulation of energy units someone can generate. In such a
system (were one possible) everyone participating would be assured, at
least, survival (with a kind of Love Fund for those physically/mentally
challenged) and eventually, with an integration of new
information/technology used with a participants directed energy, they could
acquire anything they wanted (from other participants only, I guess). Well,
tell me I'm crazy! It's just an idea! Something to think about...........

>Am I glad it's not the U.N. doing this! Well, either the attempt will be
>ill-fated and abandoned, or the system will get started in a country outside
>the U.S.A.

Maybe, indirectly, it IS the U.N.(or the energy/banking-guys-and-gals behind
the U.N.!) Pulling the strings of the puppet US Government. I believe it's
another step in a global totalitarian plan, and it's already started in the

>I'm starting to get annoyed by this encryption business. Do you suppose that
>if, say, 10 million people sent copies of 128-bit RSA code overseas as an act
>of protest, they'd give it up? You could use electronically coordinated civil
>disobedience with registered snowball cooperation.

I reckon that 10 million people USING 128-bit encryption would be a start.
Don't bank on anyone in (perceived) power of giving ANYTHING up (especially
control of all *those* sheep!) I like the "..registered snowball
cooperation." though. :o)

>> I'm all for your system (or something like it) myself, and I would be very
>> interested to hear about how you are going to implement it.
>Well... the obvious, electronic way, I suppose. Once all digital 'cash'
>shifts to the Internet and digital contracts (even automatically generated
>ones) are freely enforceable, then making the software available might simply
>be enough. First a few corporations would use it for simple barter, then the
>some people would use it for complex barter, and before you know it, the whole
>economy would have shifted over.

As I understand it, all digital 'cash' already is on the Internet, isn't it?
One of the keys (add this to the list above) is either Coca-Cola-type
AWARENESS of the issues this thread is about (conscious commerce?), and/or
an extremely, irresistably magnetic system to attract punters away from
(what I believe is) the current, coercive predatory-economic system.

Interested readers of this thread might like to check out the few pages I
have at The Uni-v.e.r.s.e. about "World Trade Clearinghouse" -- -- I think what they have is
a start.

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