META: Excess in a Free Market Place

Rick Knight (
Thu, 11 Sep 97 10:08:34 CST

EvMick wrote:

Give me an example of (what) the excesses that can and do occur in a
totally uncontrolled marketplace....give me an example of a totally
uncontrolled market place...define excess.

Rick Knight responds:

See The Tobacco Industry in the early part of this century in the U.S.
and elsewhere on the planet in recent times.


I don't know about the early part of this century...but currently the
tobacco industry is heavily controlled....if you consider taxation and
controls on advertising. I would argue that it does not meet the
criteria...also I don't see how it could even be being
but one industry in the "market" which is very obviously NOT free..

Rick responds: ...heavily taxed AND subsidized. Sounds like a dog
and pony show to me.


The ideal of a "Free Market" is that of individuals freely buying and
selling goods and definition if it is not free it is
controlled....if it is controlled then it is slavery.


Polarized definitions of black vs. White, free vs. Slavery don't seem
to adequately serve this conversation. "Free market" is, at a quick
glance, euphemistic at best. We banter around the word "Free" in this
society like it means something but I suppose I'm also taking a lot
for granted. Compared to a North Korean in a remote province, I'm
pretty damn free!


I have no problem with someone killing himself...I don't (nor do I
want to) own that's his body...his life...his decision.


We're going to have a hard time finding common ground because I don't
share your rather *removed* perspective. I am more and more convinced
that if someone suffers, I am suffering. It's the old butterfly wings
chaos notion...


Whoever has power in his hands wants to be despotic; the craze for
domination is an incurable disease.


I regard the inclination to be a despot decreases in accordance with
an increase of information and a lack of fear unless you are a
sociopath. In that case, all bets are off.


I don't agree: Clinton and his cronies are pushing Key Escrow as we
speak...this INCREASES my fear..Of Government....and yeah...maybe I am
a to define the term as you understand it? No
argument that I'm paranoid.

Rick: The "right" brand of paranoid though <G>. To the Industrial
Age mentality, domination may have been an incurable disease. I think
obsession for power is directly tied to fear of survival. Eliminate
fear of survival and you, at least, drastically reduce, a need for
despotic power.

It's hard to give any viable weight to something that was said at the
infancy of the Industrial Age (that still echoed Agrarian age
influence) when we are preparing to eclispse it in this one.


Like "Give me liberty or Give Me Death"...Patrick Henry

"They that give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin, patriot
and rebel rouser

When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm
beginning to believe it. - Clarence Darrow

I could no doubt come up with lots and lots of statements made at the
beginning of the Industrial Revolution...or before...from
say...Newton, Gallileo..Pasteur. Edison. the list is long.

None of that is relevant? Just because it... "was said at the infancy
of the Industrial Age (that still echoed Agrarian age influence) when
we are preparing to eclispse it in this one."

Rick: There's more of the black/white perspective that you tend to
filter with. I have not thrown out the baby with the bath water.
Wisdom through the ages *is* relevant. I find Clinton and company the
last of a dying breed. Government is more than overdue for an
overhaul. The house of cards will only need a good gust and with all
the rickety potentials in place (environment, economic, sociological).
No one wants to give up the scepter. Whether it's a violent coup or
an enlightened epiphany, government as usual is being undermined by
the ravenous acquisition of information by the individual. I'm
thankful that I have access to the amount of information that I do
because it is an adequate size rock for this David to hurl. There are
still large portions of the global population who can't or are denied

EvMick: We don't still have Agrarian Age Influence...? I have a
quarter million dollars worth of John Deere Tractors on my wagon right
now...not Agrarian? Toffler (Third Wave) speaks of multiple
COINCIDENTALLY OCCURING influences. Agrarian, Industrial,
Information....Ages...all at the same time.

Rick: Information will enable us to create food in land that is
essentially barren of any minerals...or create food without using land
for that matter. Your John Deere tractors are marvelous constructions
of the Industrial Age and they may incorporate Information Age
technology and they serve a purpose. But information will open up new
technologies that make a John Deere tractor seem about as practical as
having an in-dash Victrola.

Eclipsing is a process that occurs over time. Relax, you'll have a
job for a while <G>.