Re: This funny Rosswel bussines

Michael Lorrey (
Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:03:08 -0400

Mark Grant wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Michael Lorrey wrote:

First off, let me say that I think that it is likely that the Roswell
incident is a government disinformation program to cover its own current
high tech research as it is like that it was a real alien incident. The
odds I'd put at 80-90% that its gov't tricks. But I still don't like the
inconsistencies that debunkers continue to ignore, and rely on gov't
assertions contrary to truth, and evidence of records tampering and
descruction. THis tells me that someone is dirty in the gov't and there
is something being hidden, and its no weather balloon.

> > What was that? The reports of temporal dilation,
> When did they make that up? Or are you thinking of DS9?

Nope, it was a report by a soldier who claimed to be at the crash site
of the full vehicle, not the Brazel ranch.

> > unknown materials
> > technology, and no discernable power source are all evidently beyond
> > 40's technology.
> But pretty widespread in 40s SF. In any case, most of those claims weren't
> made until the early eighties, by which time they'd moved on to 80s
> technology and SF. Hal's already elaborated on this anyway.

If its all cultural related to current scifi literature projections of
technology, where are the cyber abductions? Where are the "I was
uploaded by an alien" stories?

> > There have been accounts by scientists who claimed to have inspected
> > materials at Wright-Patt that the metals were nanoassembled, and that
> > the bodies DNA had less than 10% of the amount of genetic info that
> > humans have, indicating possible genetic engineering.
> Ah, they've moved on to 90s SF. How do they know they were 'nanoassembled'?
> Do they have any evidence whatsoever that they were scientists working
> there, that these materials exist and that they saw them?
> Or is this just more hearsay?

The reports I've seen said that the materials, when looked at under a
microscope, looked like they were made up of bazillions of microscopic

This would necessitate a welding machine the size of bacteria, eh?

> > Uh, Col. Corso, who just came out with a book, was on the recovery crew,
> > supposedly,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Note, supposedly. AFAIK there's no evidence to back any of this up. More
> to the point Corso apparently spent twenty years in military intelligence
> and has a long-standing grudge against the CIA. He's hardly someone I'd
> trust as a source.
> > and was with the Joint Cheifs of Staff as well, so the claim
> > of no first hand accounts is bogus.
> By firsthand accounts I was referring to those who could actually prove
> they were there; for example the folks who worked on the Air Force base.
> Preferably people writing their own books or articles, rather than
> reported interviews, and ideally those who said something less than fifty
> years after the supposed incident occured.

Corso was at the base at the time. This is known.

> > Marcel, Brazel, and the local funeral
> > director (who delivered child sized coffins) have all made first hand
> > accounts.
> I'd have to check up more on that. I've already commented on Marcel in
> another message (his testimony seems to support the balloon theory),
> according to contemporary news reports Brazel said that the 'flying disc'
> was about four feet by six inches (three feet in another report) and
> appeared to be made of tinfoil, consistent with the balloon theory. I can't
> comment on the funeral director, other than to point out that an Air Force
> capable of keeping such a story secret for a third of a century would have
> been smart enough to build their own coffins. Amazing how they can be so
> smart one moment and so stupid the next, is it not?

You forget the bureaucratic machine. Don't have something on base?
where's the right contractor? From what I've seen of Area 51, its all
contractor run. From my own experience on many bases, most of the
logisitics stuff is handled by civilians and contractors.

> > Also, the Mogul balloon theory would fit thescattered materials found at
> > the Brazel ranch, if the materials technology problem was not there.
> Which materials technology problem? The first-hand accounts don't seem to
> show any problem, and the material in the photographs, which Marcel said
> *was the material he found at the ranch*, appears to be the material used
> to make Mogul radar reflectors. It was also, AFAIR, quite creased and
> wrinkled, contradicting the supposed 'indestructible' accounts.

The photos released were several days later, after Gen Ramey had put the
cover story in place. Considering that weather balloons were heavily
used by the weather people on base, gussying up something in a day or so
would be rather easy.
> And again, why did supposedly 'indestructible' material break up into
> little pieces when the 'disc' crashed? We have a major contradiction here.

According to Brazel, the eve before he initially found the scattered
peices (June 15th), he and his family experienced a huge explosive
sound, louder in his opinion than the lightning that was common on
summer evenings in that area.

The idea is that some explosion occured on the craft, spewing stuff over
Brazel's field, but the craft still had altitude and crashed a number of
miles away, which is where the main vehicle and bodies were found.

> > Additionally, vets who worked on that project said that balloon
> > materials were not classified, as they were pretty basic stuff, only the
> > purpose of the project was classfied. If this was so, why were the
> > materials shipped on a priority flight to Wright-Patt under guard?
> Because, as far as I can see from the report, they didn't know it was a
> Mogul balloon until it was examined at Wright-Patterson, and even if they
> did they wouldn't want to leave it lying around for reporters to examine
> because they wanted to keep the program secret. Why pass classified
> information on to the folks at Roswell rather than ship the balloon out
> for examination as quickly as possible.

But the mogul project was BASED at Roswell. If anyone knew what a Mogul
balloon was, it would have been the people at Roswell field.

Anyways, outside of the radio reciever, the mogul balloon was exactly
like a normal weather balloon. The radar reflectors were for radar
tracking of the balloon.

> (And what does he mean by 'balloon materials'? The payload was the
> important evidence, not the balloon itself, which AFAIK was just a
> standard weather balloon).

The payload was a string of radar reflectors and a radio receiver with a
tape device. Not hush hush.

> > Also, the Mogul theory does not fit the first hand reports of intact,
> > damaged wreckage being recovered at another site closer to Roswell, the
> > recovery of which by military personnell was witnessed by a number of
> > people on a geological or archaeological expedition, several of whom
> > have given first hand accounts.
> But not until more than a third of a century later, *after* the Roswell
> Industry got into full swing and they could make a buck out of it. Odd
> that. There are no contemporary reports of wreckage or alien bodies. Not
> one. AFAIR there aren't even any first-hand accounts in the 1980 book.

According to the story, the larger wreckage was found several days or
weeks later, once the story was clamped on.

Mikey's Animatronic Factory
My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA)
MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday
Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH)
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}