Re: GUNS: Re: Hooray for the 10th Amendment ???

Michael Lorrey (
Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:09:05 -0400

Mark Grant wrote:
> Abraham Moses Genen ( wrote:
> > I think that most of us can understand that the leadership of the NRA
> > would be quite interested in supporting such an action.
> Yes... that is, after all, their job.
> > They have concluded that the right to bear arms is not absolute and can be
> > regulated by the Federal government, the States and and political
> > subdivisions thereof.
> You do have a cite for that, of course? I can't think of any supreme court
> decision which says that, except the sawn-off shotgun decision (Miller?),
> which seems to imply that citizen-units are allowed any weapon suitable
> for militia use.
> > The arguements as to the need for self-defense against predators in our
> > society is best answered by having professionally trained law enforcement
> > officials in each community.
> Even when US cops are twice as likely to kill innocent bystanders as
> civilians are, and when they sell guns to criminals (BATF study in
> Washington DC)? Even when studies have shown that legal concealed carry
> laws prevent crimes and save lives?
> > I'm a bit dubious as to the need of hunters for many of the rapid fire
> > arms that are readily available as well as the need for handguns.
> So? Where does the second amendment mention hunting? Where does it say
> that "the right to bear arms" doesn't include handguns?
> > The collected cumulitive evidence indicates that most people who claim
> > they need a handgun for self defense are usually incapable of using one
> > under siuations of stress.

Any gun instructor will tell anyone incapable of mastering themselves to
stay away from guns...

Also, apparently, Mr Genen ignored my prior post last week that included
the results of a study by Handgun Control, Inc., the leading anti-gun
lobbying group out there. The people they commissioned to do the study
(Profs at the U of Chicago) found from FBI data collected between 1979
and 1995 that violent crime dropped an average of 8% in states that
enacted "right to carry" concealed weapons laws in 1994, to take effect
Jan 1 1995. Considering that the FBI reported a 3% drop in violent crime
nationwide, the 18 states with these laws make up 80% of the reported
drop, while the remaining 32 states violent crime rates only dropped an
average of .6%. I think that the difference between 8% and .6% in a pool
in the tens of thousands is statistically significant, don't you?

> Indeed. Witness the (previously quoted) fact that US cops are twice as
> likely as a civilian to shoot an innocent bystander. Taking the cops' guns
> away would save a few hunded lives every year.
> > They frequently end up shooting other family
> > members or themselves.
> Indeed, US cops are notorious for killing themselves with their service
> weapons (hence the oft-quoted statistic that cops are far more likely to
> be shot with their own guns than by a criminal). But if you're referring
> to the notorious Kellerman 'study' I think you should read one of the
> numerous critiques. It doesn't say what you seem to think it says.
> > It's possible that the issue of paranoia in our society is entering the
> > minds of some of you, as well as the numerous psycho-sexual implications
> > of gun collecting,
> You're really big on this "psycho-sexual" stuff, aren't you? Personally
> when I'm holding a gun sex is normally the last thing I'm thinking of; I'm
> much more concerned with safe gun-handling. Are you sure this isn't just
> something you're projecting on others?
> And you have read what Freud wrote about people who are afraid of guns,
> haven't you?
> Mark

What did he say? I can always use another quote when I run into anti gun

			Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------		Inventor of the Lorrey Drive

Mikey's Animatronic Factory My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA) MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH) ------------------------------------------------------------ #!/usr/local/bin/perl-0777---export-a-crypto-system-sig-RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}