Re: Extropian principles

From: J. R. Molloy (
Date: Thu Sep 20 2001 - 10:34:05 MDT

From: "Anders Sandberg" <>
> That people justify their actions by calling upon moral principles
> doesn't mean moral principles are worthless.

That's right, it means that moral principles are inadequate rather than
worthless as guides to human behavior. People often claim that they are
fighting for ideas, but notice that unless the ideas are connected directly or
indirectly to territory and/or resources, no fighting occurs.

> Just look at what people
> say they do in the name of democracy and freedom - do you hence consider
> democracy and freedom worthless because there are decidely
> un-democratic and anti-freedom acts done in their name? It is important
> to distinguish surface from substance.

Precisely so, and that's what I had referenced in earlier remarks. In the name
of democracy and freedom people have committed some of the most egregious and
entropic acts. Therefore we should note that it is not democracy and freedom
(or any other moral principles) per se, which actually motivate people.
However, the application of such principles can and does moderate real and
true motives which have their basis in biology. We should also recognize and
acknowledge what motivates people to apply moral principles is also grounded
in biology, viz., the desire for territory and resources which become
available upon such application. To phrase it plainly, people endorse and
promote principles which deliver territory and resources to those they deem
worthy of said possession. For example, the US gives lip service to democracy
and freedom while incarcerating a higher percentage of its citizens than any
other country in the world. So, as we can see, extropic principles do not
necessarily coincide with what some call moral priniciples. Rather than resort
to the specious practice of moralism (which, as we've noted, too often
eventuates in dishonest and entropic behavior), we instead administer our
territory and resources on the basis of extropic results and repercussions.
Bottom line: When it comes to moralism versus extropy, extropians decide in
favor of extropy.

--- --- --- --- ---

Useless hypotheses, etc.:
 consciousness, phlogiston, philosophy, vitalism, mind, free will, qualia,
analog computing, cultural relativism, GAC, Cyc, Eliza, cryonics, individual
uniqueness, ego, human values, scientific relinquishment

We won't move into a better future until we debunk religiosity, the most
regressive force now operating in society.

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