RE: Plea Rational Restraint on List **Attention of Joe Dees*

From: Adrian `Guru Zeb` Harper (
Date: Sun Sep 16 2001 - 07:52:28 MDT

At 23:10 14/09/01, you wrote:

> >Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:02:30 +0100
> > Adrian `Guru Zeb` Harper
> <> Plea Rational Restraint on ListReply-To:
> >
> >At 09:56 14/09/01, you wrote:
> >
> >>Certainly longer than the pleasure of its memory will live in the minds of
> >>those slimy mass-murder-perpetrating motherfuckers, because as soon as we
> >>can humanly manage, their contemptible islamfundie asses will be
> fucking dead!
> >
> >For the sake of reason. Please GROW UP. No one expects terrorists operating
> >from fundamentalist, irrational
> >assumptions about the world to keep their intellect in gear. Rather
> >foolishly i did expect that to happen on this
> >list. Apparently i have been sadly mistaken.
> >
> >These constant calls for full blooded revenge, are getting tedious. In some
> >cases are getting towards the level of
> >"Bar room arguments".
> >In all fairness i have to say some of the list members who's views on the
> >issue are closer to my own, have indulged
> >in some rather direct personal attacks over the past days.
> >It was my understanding that this list existed for presumably, balanced,
> >intelligent, rational, humans to discuss various
> >ideas and concept pertaining to science, technology, and related social
> issues.
> >Some of the behavior on this list just shows that despite many ppl having a
> >Promethean self image, many of us are
> >far from the peek of human development.
> >If ppl can't make some kind of intelligent salient point about the issue (
> >which for quite a few list members i
> >can easily understand ) i for one would be more than happy if they would
> >hold back until they have calmed
> >down enough to make rational statements.
> >
> >Surly one primary Extropian value is the concept of ones intellect being in
> >primary control of ones conscious actions
> >at all times. If we allow ourselves to loose rational self-control we
> >become little better than the fools who caused
> >Tuesdays destruction.
> >
> >Please express your thoughts and ideas, but don't just rant.
> >
>Anger is a rational emotional response to atrocity, but once rage passes,
>it should be replaced by steely, cold and calculating implacable
>relentless anger. The 'people' we are dealing with have demonstrated
>amazing focus, intensity, perseverence and singlemindeddness in the
>pursuit of their sick and twisted goals; they trained as moles, in and
>outside of my country, for years - just so they could successfully kill
>themselves while taking as many of us as possible with them, in a bid for
>heaven. Such people must be rooted out and destroyed, as well as those
>who so program them, and, make no mistake about it, it will be done, with
>or without the help or approval of anyone on this list.

It's not a matter of anyone anywhere approving US action/reaction to the
events at WTC and Washington. I have no doubt that as with many other items
of foreign policy the US is relatively unconcerned about the approval of
outsiders. Rather the discussion imho is about what kind of actions are
more or less likely to prevent another terrible terrorist attack. IMHO and
in the opinion of other ppl on this list and around the world,
indiscriminate revenge attacks on Afghanistan and it's ppl will do nothing
to ensure the long term future security of the US and it's citizens. Whilst
eradicating Bin Laden and his supports would certainly remove one threat,
in short term. Only a mutually inclusive resolution of the issues that
cause the friction
between the Muslim world and the US can possibly succeed.

>And especially without the nonexistent help of navel-gazing analysis
>paralysis types or self-hating sycophantic citizen versions of Uncle Tom
>shuffling to the terrorist tune.
On one final note Joe Dees. I'd like you to clarify the above remarks,
particularly the "self-hating sycophantic citizen versions of Uncle Tom
shuffling to the terrorist tune". Since the reference to Uncle Tom has
specific racial significance.
Whilst "shuffling to a terrorist tune" suggest at the least a tacit
acceptance of the terrorist attack as justified. A position that i have
been at some pains within all my posts to make clear i do not hold.
Are these remarks directed at me personally. If so i take great exception
at them, and this personal attack from you will serve only to reinforce my
already dubious opinion of your comments on this list.
You may also wish to reflect on the fact that in my criticism of your
earlier remarks, at no time did i make attacks of personal nature.


                                Guru Zeb,
                           Manchester, 1989

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