Re: Rotting in Hell ..(or should that be Sheol?)

From: Brian Phillips (
Date: Sat Sep 15 2001 - 10:37:53 MDT

Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:54:01 +1000
From: Miriam English <>

At 09:08 AM 14/09/2001 -0400, Brian Phillips wrote:
> Thesad thing is I will likely be fixing the broken and wounded who
> suffer for the greed of Israel and her allies in America for the next few
> years.
Miriam replied
<Hmmm... I feel unease...
I'm certain you weren't being racist when you said this, and basically I
agree with what you said, but in this time of furiously swinging pendulums
I think it is worth reminding everyone that Israel is not one entity any
more than the Palestine or America or Australia is. It is millions of
individuals. They share land, and in many cases they may share certain
mindsets, but humans are so variable that it is extremely hard to
categorise them as a group.>>
  Your unease is not suprising... most persons in the west have this
odd cognitive dissonance thing going on when they are faced with
the statement that Israel is an ethnostate built on apartheid and
blood. Naturally they think ethnostates are not good, apartheid
and blood are even worse (examples of supreme evil perhaps),
but they also have this trouble facing the reality of just how far
the rot goes. I will note here that I am slamming Tel Aviv, and
the democratically elected leaders of Israel. I do not jump to
the conclusion that this racist mindset is present in the Jewish
people or in the Israeli "people" (as distinct from their government).

<It is scary that because of some extremely unwise decisions by policy
makers in Israel (undoubtedly impelled by seige mentality and having the
most powerful ally, as well as commonly held belief of religious
righteousness) the people on those lands and their relatives abroad (Jewish
people) might once again come under attack. We have to be careful in our
use of inflammatory words because of their magnifying effect in dangerous
times. In these times words can literally kill.>
   We do differ on what we consider "unneccessarily
inflamatory". But the European West is slowly struggling
 above the "tribal" mentality (I myself tend to get all
tribal when I am pissed), and we can't afford
let rampant tribalism find support in the synagoges
 (and mosques and churchs!) of the West. Tribalism
 with a gun and a large organization is ...well that
 N-word comes to mind.

<Of all the people I have met and enjoyed the company of, those who called
themselves Jews have been among my favorites. It would be terrible if due
to some opportunistic policy makers in Israel those people everywhere came
under threat.>
  I like lots of Jews myself. Nevertheless my plea
is that the remarkably cohesive Jewish community
decide once and for all where their priorities are.
Is America first (which includes a strong vibrant
Hebrew culture doing all those things they do best)
or is a apartheid Hebrew ethnostate build by
brutal and unrelenting force in the Middle East
more important than America? I DO think the choice
needs to be made. I strongly believe that the
prescence of people who have chosen choice "B"
inflames and aggravates the Far Right in this
country and lends aid and comfort by opposition
to tribalism amongst Euros.
  Tribe or nation..and which nation? Simple
decison. So I don't wind up doing EEGs on
more young sailors who wind up with brain
damage from a ship blowing up while defending
the interests of a foreign power with avowed
goals counter to American principles of
freedom and tolerance.


This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Oct 12 2001 - 14:40:47 MDT