At 11:38 AM 13/09/2001 -0400, Mitchell, Jerry (3337) wrote:
>Miriam, have you not been paying attention to what they are saying? They
>think we are the great evil!
Yes. They do. Why do you think that is? I can tell you now that it is not,
as you think, just envy. They hate what has been done by America in their
own lands. They see violence and call for more of the same... just as you
>They hate western culture because it is based
>on the principles of self-esteem, reason, and Capitalism, and not sacrifice,
>religion, and collectivism.
Have you ever talked to any muslim people?
This is not why some people hate USA at all. You are so wound up in the
idealised version of USA, you think that is how the rest of the world sees
you too. Please, please understand Jerry, you are very, very wrong.
>This is a war of ideas. We are fighting
>an philosophy here.
That is so true. This whole damn mess is about ideas.
If everybody would forget the ideas and see the *people* then they would
see how futile the ideals are. These philosophies blind you to the reality.
They make for fanatics. As Anders said, "No ideas are worth dying or
If the idiots piloting those planes saw the *people* in the buildings
instead of being blinded by ideals then the tragedy wouldn't have happened.
>Bin laten is one little manifestation of that system.
>Kill him and 500 more will be cranked out. Its the system that needs to be
>removed and ASAP.
Exactly. If you use guns and weapons of mass destruction you will
perpetuate the system. A more subtle approach is needed -- one that removes
the hold that the religious nutters have over the poor twits who are
hoodwinked into becoming human bombs. You also need to remove the reason
the religious nutters feel compelled to denounce USA. That partly means
ensuring USA acts more responsibly in the world arena.
>Those countries are the most luddite, anti-technology,
>anti-capitalist, anti-reason countries you could find.
Ask yourself why that is.
Then ask yourself how that can be changed.
You certainly won't make people in those places love and admire America by
bombing the crap outa them. You will just ensure that the ones there who
already love and admire America get lynched.
>Why do they hate us? Well maybe if we don't look for a reason and address it,
>the problem will go away.
>Bin Laden needs to be dealt with, but what created him?
Sadly, in a very real sense the USA created him.
>History is the battle of ideas,
>and if you don't support your own system with the full belief that you are
>correct, they you are going consigned to the quagmire of guilt that so many
>around now seemed to be steeped in. The big enemies we should be fighting on
>our front (as well as those foreign) are guilt and fear. Most of the guilt
>is because we still have in this age of moon walks and supercomputers, that
>we still possess the philosophy of cave men. Those that carry that
>philosophy, and its a majority of people for the most part, deserve it and
I am sure Bin Laden would agree entirely with that sentiment.
That really frightens me Jerry -- you are speaking exactly as a dangerous
fanatic would speak. Are you seriously suggesting that ideas are the
important thing? That freedom from guilt and fear are the key to survival?
You do realise that these are big reasons why most of the truly
reprehensible deeds are able to be committed -- that the perpetrators are
convinced that the ideas are more important than anything else and that
they shouldn't feel guilty about what they have to do. Further that they
don't feel fear of retribution.
Q. What is the similarity between an elephant and a grape?
A. They are both purple... except for the elephant.
Virtual Reality Association http://www.vr.org.au
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