RE: SOCIETY: The privatization of public security in South America?

From: Miriam English (
Date: Mon Aug 20 2001 - 20:16:43 MDT

At 07:18 PM 19/08/2001 -0900, John Grigg wrote:
>Miriam wrote:
> >Ummm... try compassion? good sense? a desire to give >a whole underclass
> a chance to get in the race? to >avoid future problems? to build goodwill
> instead of >hate and envy?

John wrote:
>Do all that just to be nice? lol! Hey, how about...., UNIONS!!! Strong
>unions could really help in this matter. But, bringing the corporations
>to their knees can be hard. What ever happened to the legacy of Cesar Chavez?

I don't know who Cesar Chavez is/was.
Maybe you are being sarcastic or at least ironic when you speak of unions.
I know unions are held in deep contempt by many in USA, but although they
can go bad (like any other group) they have been a force for good many
times in many places of the world. Unions do have their place in the work
ecology. They are a way of counterbalancing the excessive power of other
groups (managers, politicians, foreign-ownership) that are so easily
corrupted and so often treat their workforce as less than cattle.

John wrote:
>I have a feeling the superwealthy immortals of the future will "raise up"
>enough people around them
>so they will feel protected. Sort of like vampire lords with their
>ghouls. lol And they may not advertise who they are...

This is a possibility, though with information age coming fully upon us I
wonder if such information hiding will be possible or practical. Maybe. We
shall have to see. But it actually would exacerbate the problem while
feeling like a quick fix. It would serve to intensify the feelings of hate
and resentment in the population at large when they did manage to find an
immortal. This would be a very dangerous path to take.

I can only hope that we choose to become benevolent enablers for the
general population.

>Miriam wrote:
>I just know that many will rush to the defense here saying that the spike
>will make technologies so accessible that poverty will be eliminated, but
>poverty is only part of the problem, and the spike alone won't eliminate
>it anyway. We have had the ability to distribute all human knowledge for free
>to all the priveleged members of society for many years now, but powerful
>financial pressures have prevented that from happening.

John wrote:
>I would say we have had the ability/possibility of distributing all human
>knowledge for free to the poor and disadvantaged, but the choice has been
>made not to.

Yes, though not in any conspiratorial fashion. Luckily increasing numbers
of people are seeing that the wealth and well-being of the entire community
can be enhanced by making information freely available. Making the poor
wealthy can make the rich even more so. It is in everybody's interest to
spread it around.

John wrote:
>What I would like to see is a first class public education system(k-12)
>and then a very inexpensive or even free college/vo-tech system. I would
>tie to this computer labs for children where advanced educational software
>grounds them in whatever they need/want to know.
>I'd like to think over the next ten or so years we will see
>computers/software enable disadvantaged people in preparing for
>educational and career success on a level never before witnessed.
>MIT is in the process of putting the contents of almost all their classes
>onto the net. I think this is a wonderful thing so people can not only
>explore the topics, but "wade in" and see if they might ever handle the

Yes. It is gradually happening. :-)
This especially great news for people like myself who don't learn well in a
lecture+exam setting. I learn best by teaching myself.

John wrote:
>One thing to remember though, even having all this knowledge online, or
>even offering free classes may not be enough. As discussed here earlier,
>some people just do not have the intellectual power to do "top ten list"
>jobs in the information age. Which is not to say they could at least
>fulfill whatever limited potential they have.

Definitely. Equality of access for all the different kinds of people so
that each can take the road they are best suited to.

Lee wrote:
> >So all of his wonderful speeches about "benefitting
> >the people" are mainly power ploys to defeat his adversaries, gain
> >power from the (ignorant) crowds, and ultimately work towards his
> >own best interests.
>Miriam wrote:
> >What shit is this Lee?
> >Straw man. Very big straw man.

John wrote:
>I never saw you so worked up before! I do agree though.

Ooops. :-)
I actually wasn't worked up. Rather, I was puzzled and a little incredulous
that he had stuck this oddity in here, but I wasn't hot under the collar. I
realise now that it reads as if I was... bad choice of expletives on my
part. Hmmm... I should look in on the Human Markup Language (HumanML) group to see if they've completed anything yet that
would make such things clearer.

>Miriam wrote:
>What is it that you have with this demon Lee??? This terrible, nasty straw
>man that wants to come and seize all your assets. He has no place in this
John wrote:
>Lee may still be smarting over April 15th... ;)

April 15th???

John wrote:
>I think Max More is right in promoting the microloan programs going on in
>the third world. It is an example of teaching a person how to fish
>instead of simply giving them a fish each day.

Yes. This is having terrific effect wherever it is put into practice. I
have read of wonderful results by the Women's Development Corporation which
helps women in poverty-stricken areas and helps them break the cycle of
That is not to say that lean and effective groups such as Oxfam which
deliver food relief in critical situations are not useful too. They have
their place. But corrupt, top-heavy, relief donation groups (World Vision?)
are not a good solution.

John wrote:
>Even singularity level technology is not a must-have to solve much of the
>dire poverty. If gov'ts were not so corrupt in pocketing foreign aid
>money/their own gov't money meant for the poor, we would see so many lives
>saved. And if we donate food and medicine we are likely to see it sold on
>the blackmarket where the price is way beyond what the poor can pay. And
>I have not even mentioned where governments purposely starve certain
>populations they view as being troublemakers.

Of course it is not just governments, though. Religious groups,
corporations, militia, any groups or individuals willing to use power
against others.

Best wishes,

         - Miriam

Q. What is the similarity between an elephant and a grape?
A. They are both purple... except for the elephant.
Virtual Reality Association

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