RE: Enoughness, was Re: Vicious Racism

From: Lee Corbin (
Date: Tue Aug 07 2001 - 17:08:37 MDT

Samantha writes

> What makes you think we don't have better things to do
> than have our emotional control and objectivity taxed
> at the moment?

Who said I think that? I have said any number of times that
(a) people's tastes vary, (b) some have too little time (c)
some people are so disgusted by any discussion pertaining
to racism, homophobia, or sexism and simply choose to stay
away, and so on. I meant no criticism of any of those people.

My criticism is of those who want to throw incidiary accusations
at others, but who don't want to discuss whether or not it is
wise to do so, under what conditions one ought to do so, and
so on.

> Do you really think that no one would want to forgo
> things like the original post on here for some other
> reason beyond just being unconfortable?

No. There are many reasons one might want to forego reading
or discussing anything (including Fred Reed's piece).

> Where is your objectivity when it comes to a balanced view of
> your list siblings?

Would you please point out where I do not have a "balanced
view of my list siblings"? Your vague implications here
aren't very easy to contend with.

> Are you the pot calling the kettle black when it
> comes to failing in objectivity and assuming the
> worse about others when they don't want to play?

Can you give me an example where I appear to be the
pot calling the kettle black? I admit to failing to
be objective at times; we all do from time to time.
I wished to be called on it when I'm not. But those
efforts *must* be accompanied by adequate references
to what was actually said. Here, for example, I have
no good idea what you are talking about.

>> The worst thing that I can say about the act of *posting*
>> such an article is that it is in poor taste insofar as
>> many of the lurkers are concerned. (I'll defend that thesis
>> some other time.) But for extropians, it is obviously
>> exactly what is needed, and the 800 lurkers have to gear
>> up to the level of perspicacious analysis plain speaking
>> that often occurs here.
> You might believe it is exactly what is needed but many here
> disagree. I think that it is a pretty ham-fisted way of
> exploring the problems of objectivity in discussions if that
> is your primary purpose.

Sorry. I can't think of any better way. If people truly want
to understand how difficult it is to keep their tempers and
their objectivity, then discussing us and our reactions to
someone's EXTREMELY controversial post is an *excellent*
starting point. What better way can you think of. (Thanks.)

>> If we cannot learn how to be objective and calm with
>> ideas that disturb *us*, then how are we to approach
>> telling others about Jupiter brains, uploading, and
>> the singularity?
> One can be utterly objective and calm and still say, "I am not
> interested in discussing thus and such subject right now or in
> endless analysis of the motivations and sub-motivations of what
> made the discussion to date what it was or was not."

Of course. And one can even not attend to the discussion at
all. If you wish simply to express disapproval of the participants,
or of the original poster, or of some of the arguments that people
have made, well, it's a free list, so go ahead. But I think that
it is far better---especially if you want to contribute something---
to meet others arguments with rational counter-arguments, not
complain about the existence of those arguments.
>> Nonsense. This is yet another symptom of the fact that
>> you are made very uncomfortable by the possibility that
>> while not literally correct, the essay delves into "areas
>> that people were not meant to discuss".> >
> Lee, you need a vacation. Seriously. Nothing is more boringly
> needlesome than a rehash of a contentious disagreement.

You are bored, so I need a vacation? :-) Well, thanks very
much for the advice. I appreciate people with my own best
interest in mind (this is not a joke, this is not sarcasm),
and I'll consider it. Considering your best interests in
mind, in order to repay you the favor, I think that you might
consider not attending to threads that are boring, or to
posters that bore you a lot.


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