Re: Heresy

From: Brian D Williams (
Date: Tue Aug 07 2001 - 13:14:19 MDT

>From: Aina & Bones <>

>Is Extropianism mainly for American's? How many Europeans are on
>this list and how much, if any, european philosophy is in your

There are a number of Europeans on this list, and many of us are
descended from Europeans, and of course we are all descended from
Africans. Since Max formulated the principals and is originally
from England, the answer is yes. (tongue firmly in cheek)

>How will the transhumanist movement deal with people's fears: the
>pessimism/realism that experience engenders? Will technology
>really change how people are or will people have to do that for

By using rationalism to dispel fear, and occasionally turning on
the hall light to prove there really is nothing hiding under the

>The degree of optimism on this list concerning the future is
>definitely infectious and I'd really love it to be as e.g.. Mr.
>Broderick envisions but People have milked the meme concerning the
>power of science to improve the human condition to death.

We will attempt to milk it to life.

>The egg heads (no offense intended) have been saying that
>technology will solve this and that and remove this and that for
>centuries now. Technology has indeed developed the cures for many
>diseases and increased crop harvests etc. but most people don't
>get the benefit of it.

This is largely do to obsolete belief systems, including but not
limited to their economic and political systems. We work to correct
this, largely by practical demonstration.

>Will what most people get out of a time and technology that can
>produce diamond houses cheaply be a diamond bullet in the head? If
>not why?

A very long healthy lifespan which they can put to numerous good
uses, see Mortimer Adler on the correct use of leisure.

>Will Transhumanism become a sort of super technocratic society in
>which technologists develop technology only for themselves or can
>others join? Will it be the third word that matches: aristocracy,
>racism.......... transhumanism?

See the Extropian principals.

>After all this biotech superman thing is basically a child of
>National Socialism. Sure, now one can in theory claim that with
>gene manipulation even defectives CAN be healed. WILL they be

I don't see the national socialism origin. Yes to those suffering
defects being healed.

>Are the words can and should synonyms?


>Over the time (years) that I have been a member of this list I
>have, from time to time, noticed what I (perhaps wrongly)
>interpret to be disdain for poor/uneducated/less intelligent
>people in many postings so I wonder Will everybody get a better
>body or will there be a races of super humans and slave race that
>serve them?

I am not aware of anyone here disdaining poor/uneducated/less
intelligent here, we still have vast differences on how best to
help them.

No one here is out to create a master race, we are interested in
advancing human evolution to the next level.

>What is to stop Transhumanism from becoming the scientific arm of
>future dictatorships?

Transhumans themselves, worry more about a theocracy.

>Can Libertarianism be summed up like this: all the freedom,
>justice, health and life that money can buy. If so how does that
>change things from the way they are now?

I'll leave this to party members.

>Is or will Transhumanism be nothing more than intellectual
>confusion, moral imbecility, and willful ugliness elaborated into
>a self-conscious ideology: the worship of wealth, power, novelty
>and machinery? Will it become the ultimate expression of what many
>call a culture less and materialist America: a sort of burger and
>coke religion?

God I hope not (joke)! I think rather than a self-conscious
ideology, you mean a self-healing tautology, and no this is not
where we are headed.

>Must Transhumanism demand spiritual pathology. Obviously not since
>Mr. Broderick seems to allow for something else, as it were, but
>how many transhumans can make allowances for that which they
>cannot see?

You seem to be basing alot of your questions on Damien's work, have
you read the extropian principals?

>For me the ends justify the means but it seems that in
>Transhumanism the means is the end. Is this a fair judgment?

This is a bit too simplistic in my estimation.

>There are those who say that Libertarians and individualists are
>most likely to be solely concerned with their own egotistical and
>Narcissistic gratification. Since there are a few here on the list
>I ask would you refute this claim and how/why?

Anyone concerned with only themselves I would say is unbalanced.
(and lonely)

>How would a Transhumanist egalitarian/collectivist effort express
>itself? Would they go for a Borg type society as in Star Trekk?

I'm not interested in either egalitarian or necessarily
collectivist efforts so the answer is N/A.

>Why not find ways of extending the use of our already existing
>brains instead of making new ones? If the mind can work outside of
>the human body why go for any form of containment at all? Is it
>possible to exist without limits?

We can already make computational elements out of superior
materials, when we learn to master the architecture we can move our
thoughts if we wish. The size of the human brain and therefore it's
potential is limited currently by the size of the birth canal,
another limit to overcome.

>Since our instincts and emotions are our driving forces if we
>insulate ourselves from them or get rid of them what will our
>motivating force be?

Instincts and emotions are also thought processes.

>Are people in general in greater danger of being mistreated by
>transhumans/extropians than, white people are of being mistreated
>by negroes?


>In attempting to become more than human will we become less?


>Don't get me wrong. I'm not against science and technology. I'd
>install a bionic leg today if I could -_- It's just that I have
>lived a lot of my life in what you would call primitive
>circumstances and have taken a long time to learn about all the
>different stuff you guys talk about here.

>In reading up I have found questions which have bothered me but I
>did not want to trouble you all with my lack of
>knowledge/understanding. However since some people on this list
>seriously wanted to discuss whether or not white people are nicer
>than black people I figured that my questions won't be the most
>stupid ever brought up on the list.

I wasn't aware anyone was discussing whether whites are nicer than
blacks, but your questions are welcome anyway.


Extropy Institute,
National Rifle Association,, 1.800.672.3888
SBC/Ameritech Data Center Chicago, IL, Local 134 I.B.E.W

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