RE: Fred Reed - The Dave Barry of Racists

From: Barbara Lamar (
Date: Sat Aug 04 2001 - 17:04:22 MDT

Mike Lorrey wrote:

> Crime studies
> don't only look at arrest and conviction data.

However, I believe arrest and conviction data were the source of the stats
posted by Al V.

> Some deal with surveys of
> victims for a more victim-centric view of crime as it is committed, not
> as it is enforced.

Sounds interesting, Mike. Do you know whether references to any of these
surveys are online; if so, would you have any urls?
Gary Kleck's research deals mainly with guns, doesn't it? Couldn't find
anything on race. I did, however, find this:

Firearm fans love to cite a "study" that was done by Gary Kleck, a professor
of criminology at Florida State University. Kleck's work alleges that
civilians use guns in self defense up to 2.5 million times a year. But Dr.
David Hemenway, a professor at Harvard's School of Public Health, examined
Kleck's methodology and, in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology,
concluded that the study had a "huge overestimation bias."

To expose the slipshod scholarship of Kleck and his colleague, Mark Gertz,
Hemenway applied their methodology to a 1994 ABC News/Washington Post survey
that asked the respondents if they had ever come into contact with an alien
or seen an alien space ship. With the Kleck and Gertz method being applied
to the alien question, you would be left with the following results: 20
million Americans have seen an alien space ship, and over a million have
actually met a being from another planet.

Note: I write this as a person who was given a gun as a child and taught how
to use it safely, and who has lived in an extremely dangerous neighborhood
and used a gun for protection. I agree that guns can be useful in such
situations. I have to say, though, that every year during deer hunting
season I'm subjected to the antics of would-be mountain men who take to the
woods with their guns, often consume large quantities of ethanol, and shoot
at anything that moves.

> blacks commit
> 90% of the crime perpetrated against other blacks, but a majority of the
> crime perpetrated against whites.

What sorts of crimes were included in this research, and what's the source
of the figures? The studies of this sort that I've seen deal with violent
crime and ignore such crimes as embezzlement and fraud.

> Of course, this could likely leave out victimless crimes

I would think so, since it's based on interviews with victims.

> but other
> studies of white collar crime, and its prevalence, should shed some
> light on this. I would buy the fact that whites likely commit more white
> collar crime than blacks, that being their more likely environment, but
> what are the actual numbers?

Beats me. I will say that serious bodily injury and death strike me as far
more serious damages than loss of assets. I'd also say that blue collar
crime is generally harder work than white collar crime and, overall, results
in a lower income for the practioner. (I once had a guy call my law office,
seeking help to collect SS benefits. Seems he'd gotten into a fight when he
was in prison and was knocked from an upper bunk onto the floor, injuring
his back. He claimed that the injury prevented him from pursuing his chosen
profession of burglary, and he didn't have the education to go into
something more genteel like online bank fraud.) Better educational
opportunities for poor people would help to decrease violent crime, but to
make any real difference I think you'd also have to improve general living
conditions for the very poor.


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