Re: [isml] Re: Scientists outflanked and outgunned in cloning debate(fwd)

From: Eugene Leitl (
Date: Fri Aug 03 2001 - 14:15:23 MDT

-- Eugen* Leitl <a href="">leitl</a>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:05:24 -0500
>From: Chas. M. Bee <>
Subject: Re: [isml] Re: Scientists outflanked and outgunned in cloning
    debate wrote:
> --- In isml@y..., "DS2000" <ds2000@m...> wrote:
> > NEW YORK (Reuters) - Scientists involved in cloning research are
> being
> > out-manoeuvred by well-funded religious and anti-abortion groups,
> This is such bullshit. Whenever someone dares challege current
> scientific "progress", they are grouped as ultra-religious or "right-
> wing". Meanwhile, all the establishment's "private labs" are busy
> creating monstrousities of the Dr. Frankenstein kind, heedless of any
> regulation and funded by military and private expenditures.

   However, this time of course they really are ultra-religious and righters.

   In this case, they're challenging research that will add 15+ years to
my life (I have a kidney transplant at 40) on the pretext that an 8-cell
blastula (without any differentiated cells yet) is a person. Sorry, no
sympathy for them is forthcoming from these quarters, especially
considering that there is no biblical prohibition for abortion. Not
that any educated person should consider the procedure an abortion
anyway, IMHO.
> I've noticed that not one major scientific group has come out with
> an "ethical arguement" against cloning (unlike the European
> scientific community). It's like they believe ethics is just a class
> in college. Hitler and his Nazi scientists would be proud. Now we can
> create life AND THEN torture it inhumanly.

   Thus far, every ethical argument against cloning that I've run up
against relies on a) religious dogma, b) the clone as property, a
shortsighted prediction, or c) the clone as drone worker, another
shortsighted prediction. But I'm willing to entertain suggestions.

   In actuality, clones will be just like any other person, except of
course for the likelihood of having birth defects (and perhaps
inversely, a trust fund =) ). Any sentient 'monstrosities' are most
likely 50 years away, bare minimum. So far, it's stuff like
salt-sucking tomatoes.

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