RE: The Extropian Religious War--thank you

From: Lee Corbin (
Date: Sat Jul 14 2001 - 22:05:38 MDT

Samantha writes

> To me spirituality is about the apprehension and the actual
> creation of the deepest and most truly glorious potential
> possible.

A lot of confusion has arisen over nothing if this is all
that you and others mean when defending spirituality.

Samantha had also written

> > > Religions are great tools for weaving visions. For good and
> > > ill. They are also quite good for cohering societies devoted at
> > > different levels to common goals. And I believe some of these
> > > systems have quite a lot to say about letting go of your current
> > > mental/emotional lockstep and redefining and reintegrating
> > > yourself. This is a very important skill for what most of us
> > > contemplate doing and becoming.

and Eliezer responded

> > Again, I use rationality for that.

to which Samantha replies

> You use rationality and again, something that you include in
> rationality that is beyond what I think many mean by the term.

I think that this is true. Most people here, I believe, who are
the great exponents of rationality would probably speak like
this: "it is rational, and rationally advances your goals, to
redefine and reintegrate yourself, but the values that lie
behind the act aren't neccessarily rational or irrational---
they just are." That is, most of us still believe in the
is/ought barrier.

> I disagree that saying there is something deeper than reason
> itself is solely to protect wrong thinking. There are simply
> places in the fabric of truth and of deep value that cannot be
> reached by reason alone.

About "deep value" I agree. But it might be helpful to the
whole debate if you gave some examples of places in the
fabric of truth that cannot be reached by reason.

> Scientists are not the only source of healthy and necessary
> discomfort.

Absolutely true.


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