On Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:13 PM J. R. Molloy jr@shasta.com wrote:
> > The reason I question his inclusion was because I doubt he is a "total
man"
> > and I also question whether he is an "enlightened master." What, in
> > particular, makes you think he is?
>
> Well, he's dead now. So he isn't enlightened anymore.
Use of the present tense is not wrong in this context, but I won't argue
it.:)
> I equate the term "total
> man" with "enlightened master" because the two terms seem to me to
describe
> identical beings.
This does not answer either question. Why is Mohammed either? What
characteristics do you see in him that lead you to believe he is/was a
"total man," an "enlightened master," or "fully awakened beyond words"?
(Whatever the last phrase means!)
> I put Mohammed in the same category with Buddha, Moses, Lao
> Tzu, Christ, Krishna, Socrates, and Kabir because all these were fully
awakened
> beyond words. So, why did you single out Mohammed from the others?
I disagree that any on the list are "fully awakened beyond words," but I
chose to attack what I believe is the weakest link. While I do agree
Mohammed founded a religion, I do not see that as all that enlightening or
as evidence of being a total man -- in the conventional sense of the word.
This is, at least, from my readings of the Koran and history. (I'm sure
some will disagree here, but military conquest and the like do not seem like
traits of enlightenment to me. Of course, in Nietzsche's sense, I can see
how he would see this as part of being a "total man," given his views of
natural virtues. However, it is just in this point that I think we must
question Nietzsche.)
Now, if you mean by those terms, founders of new religions or of new
philosphical movements, then, yeah, they all seem to fit, though that's not
saying much. Why not put the pre-Socratics in there too, and the guy who
founded Mormonism as well as Madame Blavatsky? (Of course, perhaps you do,
since you had "et al." on your original list.)
Cheers!
Daniel Ust
http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/
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