Re: omega-point-deity (was: from Italy about exi)

Date: Thu Jul 06 2000 - 14:34:16 MDT

In a message dated 7/6/00 11:56:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

<< Sure, I have no disagreement with that. I'm actively promoting it. But
 the problem is: can intelligence convert an open into a closed
 universe? Even if intelligence acts on the largest scales and has all
 available physical knowledge it may not be able to do such a thing. It
 may of course be that we will soon discover an easy trick of doing it
 (just involving 10^12 galaxy-masses of relativistic neutronium or
 something other easily obtainable :-). But you cannot build a very
 believable theory on the *possibility* that the laws we know are wrong
 (it would be like a theory that began "Assume relativity doesn't
 hold..."). That the laws of physics seem to evaporate in the presence
 of intelligence doesn't mean everything will become possible even for
 superbeings. >>
Well said, however the 'realm' of the universe exists where even hysterically
speaking, it just might ( 1 x 18 million chance) that the testing at Los
Alamos in New Mexico in July, 55 years ago might have ignited the entire
planetary oxygen on fire. Also, the fear last February, that the New Collider
at Brookhaven Labs would pierce the 'false vacuum' that outer space consists
of and the universe poop out. Playing an actuarial game, one may almost
conclude that given a universe where intelligence might persist into the
billions of years, a kind of convergence of capability to manipulate even
phyiscal laws would 'naturally' occur.

<OK, I would gladly settle for a neuron brain in the interrim, no
question about it. But it is *so much simpler* than the Omega Point
(we can at least imagine how a nanotech version of it might work
according to known physics).>

Precisely, but its good to remember that Tipler was playing a decent, mental
exercise on how things could happen, not an absolute guarantee that they
would, or that it axiomatically has to happen in this way. Tipler is speaking
to the Eshaton, the absolute of absolutes. Or would the last intelligence in
the universe please turn off the lights?

<Well, it might be useful for a lot of pre-omega things (like
colonising the stars, literally). But of course, Tipler was really
talking about interacting modes of the Higgs field for his

The Higgs feild research seems full of a kind of awe-inspiring content,
rather then some of the other papers that are to be obtained at the
LANL-Archives under High Energy Physics-Phenominology (a website I see you
have visited frequently!) Pre-Omega things are teriffic, and the descendents
(ascendents of ours) will likely fine-tune mattter/energy/info to suit their
needs--their may be several ways to the Eshaton-whatever the heck they/we
call it.

<What would be suitable storage units? I have been thinking about
vortex loops, they look nice and ought to be useful for something.>

Hmmm. Sounds somehow, profound.

<The problem is that it is accelerating due to the cosmological
constant. The horizons are creeping closer and closer..>

That is beyond my level of understanding. If the horizons or boarders of the
universe are creeping closer, then it sounds like its a heat death colapse no
matter what?

<Sure. I hope to be there (two ancient posthumans still debating
cosmology - "See? That cluster was not relativistic either! Told you
so back in last eon!" :-) ) >

I am guessing that we will not be alone in this and that the ensamble of
universes in the Max Tegmark sense, will supply entertainment and
stimulating conversations for
Yotta-Epochs to come.

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