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>> The point is not whether some external observer could determine whether >> the brain is conscious by giving it a Turing test. The point is whether >> the brain is *actually* conscious, a fact which is true or not regardless >> of anyone else's opinions or whether it is willing to participate in >> any kind of testing. >Now you seem to be trying to say it is conscious even though it fails the>consciousness test, or that it is internally conscious even though this >consciousness is not detectable or provable by any outside source. You seem
It seems to me that consciousness is never proveable by an outside source. One assumes that since one is conscious, others who appear similar are likewise conscious. And there is the argument from intersubjectivity of language, namely that if I can understand you, then you must be speaking from the same subject position, i. E. that you are conscious. I can certainly conceive of nonconscious intelligence. And some, some Buddhists for example, would consider consciousness an inferior state of mind to postconsciousness.
Steven L. Harvey Sharvey@co.coconino.az.us
<mailto:Sharvey@co.coconino.az.us>
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>> The point =
is not whether some external observer could determine whether
>> the brain =
is conscious by giving it a Turing test. The point is =
whether
>> the brain =
is *actually* conscious, a fact which is true or not regardless
>> of anyone =
else's opinions or whether it is willing to participate in
>> any kind =
of testing.
>Now you seem to =
be trying to say it is conscious even though it fails the
>consciousness =
test, or that it is internally conscious even though this
>consciousness =
is not detectable or provable by any outside source. You =
seem
>to be trying to =
prove a point without having it be testable, falsifiable, or
>scientifically =
verifiable.
- --
>Harvey Newstrom =
<mailto://newstrom@newstaffinc.com> <http://newstaffinc.com>
>Author, =
Consultant, Engineer, Legal Hacker, Researcher, Scientist.
It seems to me that = consciousness is never proveable by an outside source. One = assumes that since one is conscious, others who appear similar are = likewise conscious. And there is the argument from = intersubjectivity of language, namely that if I can understand you, = then you must be speaking from the same subject position, i. E. that = you are conscious.
I can certainly = conceive of nonconscious intelligence. And some, some Buddhists = for example, would consider consciousness an inferior state of mind to = postconsciousness.
Steven L. = Harvey Sharvey@co.coconino.az.us