Date sent: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:08:46 -0400 From: "Michael S. Lorrey" <mike@lorrey.com> Organization: http://lorrey.com http://artlocate.com To: extropians@extropy.com Subject: Re: racism pollutes the extropian list Send reply to: extropians@extropy.com
> dwayne wrote:
>
> > "Michael S. Lorrey" wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > Now who is knee jerking? The context that I used the word, with no knowledge of the
> > > particular political correctness of the word in a region on the opposite side of the
> > > planet from me, was merely as a means of abbreviating.
> >
> > Sure. But once you have been told it has racist connotations, why bring
> > it up again? Why not just let it lie?
>
> We were having a discusion about knee-jerk responses to use of words taken out of context.
> My point has been that there are so many different historical contexts that for a person to
> jump to such conclusions is rude and insulting in and of itself. We could have just let it
> lie at that, but you seem to prefer to continue the rudeness.
>
> > > Its also quite convenient for you to ignore my italian ancestry.
> >
> > What?
> > Sorry, last time I checked, Italians were caucasian.
>
> Only in a general sense. Most bigoted types who are northern european descendants do not
> beleive so, especially italians of sicilian descent, who are considered by bigots of
> northern extraction to be not much different from blacks. If I were as knee jerk and
> over-sensitive as you I'd consider your ignorance of this fact to be rather bigoted of you.
>
> > > Even today in many parts of the US, when people
> > > find out you are italian and from the east coast, they automatically think you are in
> > > the mafia. When my grandfather married an italian girl in the 1930's, his family
> > > would not talk to him for years, prejudice was so widespread back then. To most
> > > WASPs, being white means being of NORTHERN european descent, and specifically of
> > > English descent. Anyone who is not ignorant of history knows what the English did to
> > > the Scots after Culloden. Apparently you are.
> >
> > Oh get a grip, will you? Who is talking about WASPS? As I said to you,
> > if you were to use such a word to a group of aborigines over here, they
> > will be offended. The fact that you are *italian* will not calm them
> > down much at all. All they will see is yet another offensive white dude
> > having a go at them. Shit, that's all I see reading this email.
>
> Which is, as I said, total knee jerking and being totally ignorant of other historical
> contexts.
>
> > And I'll wager I have a FAR greater understanding of history than you
> > do.
>
> >From what I've seen so far, not bloody likely.
>
> > > I was talking with some freinds the other day about this, and we were mocking the
> > > demands of a few years ago for apologies to the african americans. At the same time
> > > their ancestors were getting enslaved by the British, my Scottish ancestors were
> > > getting exterminated by the British. Why the hell should I, or my representatives,
> > > have to apologize to them?
> >
> > This is SUCH complete bullshit. The Scots weren't locked up in chains
> > and carted off to the other side of the planet. To even attempt to
> > compare what happened to the scots to what happened to negroes is so
> > obviously fatuous as to render me, um, speechless.
>
> On the contrary, my scottish ancestors were locked up and carted off to the Hebrides and to
> Nova Scotia, and their land was seized so that English lords could make more profits off of
> the breeding of sheep. All commoner women were subject to the English policy of
> Primogeniture, which meant that the king, the local lord, or his agent had the right to
> have intercourse with any newly married woman before the husband could consummate the
> marriage. This was the enactment of old Longshanks' complaint that "The problem with
> Scotland is that its full of Scots."
>
> I think this is an ample example of how little you understand history.
>
> > > None of my ancestors even came to the US until after the
> > > civil war. One of my buddies noted that his danish ancestors were held under martial
> > > law by the Swedes way back when, so I summarily apologized to him for the actions of
> > > my Swedish ancestors on his Danish ancestors.
> >
> > Can I just quickly interject into the midst of this foam and ask you:
> > what the hell has this to do with you not calling aborigines "abos"?
>
> I could counter by saying that what does my use of the term, even though I've never been
> anywhere near Austrialia or known an Aborigine, have anything to do with how pissed the
> Aborigines may be at the way Aussies have treated them?
>
> > > Now I suppose if you REALLY stretch it, I would have to apologize for my Roman Empire
> > > ancestors and what they did to the Carthaginians, the Egyptians, the Jews, the
> > > French, and the British. Let me say right here: I am truly sorry people I never met
> > > or gained an ounce of benefit from opressed people you never met or gained an ounce
> > > of benefit from. Happy now?
> >
> > Without getting too far into personal flames, you are a fucking twit.
>
> Since this isn't the first time you've descended to personal flames, insults, and general
> bad language, you're already a bit far into it.
>
> > Where did I say you should feel responsible for ANYTHING other than your
> > own actions? Why did this come into it? I mentioned that the word "abo"
> > is considered rude here. You come back, as usual, with something
> > totally unrelated to what I wrote. Are you incapable of addressing the
> > issues people raise with you, too stupid to understand the difference,
> > or too devious to care?
>
> I addressed the topic, and you still felt like coming back with a rude threat as to how
> some Queensland natives would treat me. The only one being rude here is you.
>
> > Do you have any idea how many people killfile you, Michael? Is it a
> > lot? You are the only person on this list I have considered doing it to,
> > and one of the rare people on the net to bring me to such a conclusion.
> > Congratulations.
>
> The only people who may killfile me are people I probably wouldn't care to converse with
> much anyways, or are people who are just to busy to deal with the obnoxious individuals I
> take it upon myself to deal with.
>
And how well do you deal with yourself, Michael?
>
> > I haven't done so as yet because you *appear* to have a brain, but this
> > complete inability to stick to the point is too annoying for words.
>
> At this point, I'm wondering what YOUR point is. You seem to have lost it.
>
> Mike Lorrey
>
>