Re: memetic war

Gina Miller (
Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:04:37 PDT

Ted Turner is already married to a beautiful woman and Picasso is

Gina "Nanogirl" Miller          (Sorry, I just couldn't resist!)

>Well, I called all those people and told them that. Most of them
>know what I was talking about. I had to explain what a meme is.
>said "I'm an entertainer. I wouldn't be where I am today if I
>about memes. My career would never have gotten past square one."
>said "I'm an artist. I don't give a damn about memes. I just
paint what
>I see." Ted Turner did know what a meme was, but he said "I'm a
>businessman, first of all. I want money, power, fame, and beautiful
> I do have an agenda, of course, and being in my position I can push
>certain ideas and not others, but that's not what my career is
about. The
>idea that somebody would devote his life to propagating memes _as
such_ is
>bizarre. It reminds me of those cartoons about 'people who don't
get the
>concept.' Memes can take care of themselves. Get a life."
>Greg continued,
>> No one expects to get rich propagating transhuman ideas or
>> per se.
>Well, per se is the problem. If somebody wants to make money, it is
>rational for him to promote the idea that wealth is a good thing and
>not be confiscated for socialistic reasons. But when someone has no
>intention of making money, but tries to propagate the capitalism
meme and
>the rational selfishness meme, per se -- if his main goal is for
people to
>think the right thoughts about these issues -- I just don't know
what to
>make of this. It reminds me of something C.S. Lewis said, "It is
>important that heaven should exist than that I should get there." I
>understood Lewis's statement, and I don't understand the idea of
>propagating memes as such, for their own sake.
>In today's economy, there are so many opportunities I have to chase
>away with a stick. I'm not saying ExI is useless in its present
form, I'm
>just saying what others have no doubt said many times before -- that
>is no reason for it to conceive itself as a propagator of memes, or a
>networking group, as opposed to an organization that actually sets
>in motion and makes things happen. Nevertheless it is what it is,
so let's
>see if there is an alternative.
>> We are entering the age of memetic competition. What kind of meme
>> create a phenotype around itself that has the strength to survive
>> become immortal? An ism? A corporation? or some new kind of meme?
>> I would answer your question by saying "All of the above."
>> How would you answer it?
>As everyone knows by now, I go back and forth on the question of
whether we
>even need to think in these terms at all. The computer industry
>need a meme to bring it into existence, it just happened, and
biotech is
>happening by itself too. The technology of immortality will come
>existence just like personal computers came into existence, as the
>outcome of economic forces. Nevertheless, sometimes I do think we
need a
>meme that can create a phenotype around itself. This will have to
>till tomorrow.

Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit