At 12:33 PM 4/12/99 -0400, Ron Kean wrote:
>On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:05:31 EDT EvMick@aol.com writes:
>>Is it possible to build a small, inexpensive solar powered
>>that would take water (say...from his holding tank) split the water
>>and O....and store the H2 for use as a cooking gas in his stove, to
>>refrigerator...and as fuel for his heater.
>Yes, it is possible, but it is not very practical.
I'll agree here, but not for the reasons stated.
> H2 as fuel should in
>principle be no more difficult to handle than propane, if it comes from
>the factory already compressed in a tank. But nobody uses H2, so there
>are no H2 stoves, refrigerators, or heaters. A gas appliance expert
>could possibly modify existing propane appliances to burn H2. I think H2
actually, in the 70's extensive tests were conducted on hydrogen fuels.
The summary of work done by the brookhaven national lab as i recall was
that standard methane/propane infrastructure worked quite well for
hydrogen. Burners required new ports and leak rates were higher, but the
energy loss was no more then existing hydrocarbons.
>would burn with an invisible flame. And unlike propane, H2 is lighter
>than air so would not tend to pool in low spots like propane might in the
>event of a leak.
this is generally a plus, who needs to see the flame?
>But to store H2 made on site, one would need a compressor and storage
>tank, which costs money and poses safety problems. Another practical
not necessarily. one can store hydrogen as hydrates, using a process similiar to
>problem is the amount of energy available per day from solar power. If
>the entire roof of, say, 10 square meters were covered horizontally with
>10% efficient solar electric panels, the KWH would average about 1 to 3
>per day, assuming typical cloud cover, angle of incidence, and daylight
>hours for 40 degrees latitude. That is about 8 to 25 cents per day worth
>of electricity based on what land based residential consumers of
>electricity typically pay. That could be increased by angling the panels
>towards the sun or adding pop up vertical mirrors on the sides. It's
>cheaper to buy electricity or propane than it is to make energy oneself
>from solar panels, for most applications, when you consider the cost of
>the panels and the ancillary equipment.
or one needs to use a different process, say photo-catalysis. rhodium exposed to UV catylzes water. it's expensive, but works. however as ron says it's not real practical.
and if you are going to invest in solar infrastructure just do solar hot water and have a solar refrigerator. far more effective.
>>Could such a unit be built inexpensively enough such that it would
>>to purchase it as opposed to the propane which he currently uses...(a
>>over a dollar a gallon....dual seven gallon tanks being good for not
>It would definitely not be cost-effective to build just one. Mass
>produced, they could be much cheaper, but still not cheap enough that
>people would want buy them as opposed to just buying propane tanks.
if you want your own methane for Y2K, why not build a methane reactor.
take your human wastes, run it into a water tank, and let bacteria
produce this, or stick a tube int he rear end of a cow, and harvest methane
this way. every day you milk the cow and vent the gas. the cow is pretty
but they don't kick much.
>>Hmmmmm....now if THAT is possible...what about a Hydrogen fueled..fuel
>>Ft. Worth Texas
>If H2 were a commercially available fuel, it would possibly be practical
>to run tractor trailer rigs from it, while noting the inconvenience of
>wrestling H2 tanks in and out of their cradles when refueling, and noting
>the danger of driving around with H2 tanks. Compressed gas tanks are
>banned from tunnels, for instance.
which is why they use LNG on buses ;-)
>But for now, gasoline and diesel are cheaper fuels than H2 (per BTU), and
>are widely available and convenient to handle. If fossil fuels had never
>been commercialized, it is likely that cars and trucks, if we had them,
>would be running on ethanol, methane, or H2, made from renewable sources.
well i do have to agree with rons summary even if his reasoning isn't perfect.
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