Re: A Challenge To All Extropians

Randall R Randall (
Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:50:18 -0400

On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:24:12 -0700 Paul Hughes <> writes:
>James Rogers wrote:
>> At 02:41 PM 4/27/98 -0700, Paul Hughes wrote:
>> >John K Clark wrote:
>> >
>> >> My conclusion is to work or beg for a handout. What is your
>> >
>> >Stock options for those laid off would be a nice start!
>and Randall R Randall said:
><<But whom do you propose to steal them from? And
>if theft is okay, for people who've been laid off, then
>why not have them do it themselves?>>
>> I assume you are not serious, as this would significantly devalue a
>> company, effectively offseting the economic reasons for the lay off in
>> first place.
>HUH? Perhaps you have missed the evolution of this thread. So I will
try to
>repeat it in brief:

<some snippage of brief>

Oh. Well, we can do this another way, then.
If people are willing to buy stock (either on
credit, or from what they now make), then I've
no problem with this, though you might find
it difficult at first to get a loan officer to lend
money for "investment".

>So why not allow everyone who is automated out of a those jobs (i.e.
>laid off) become shareholders in the company?

No problem. You can become such a shareholder
now. However, if you just *give* them the shares,
that percentage of the company's worth must come
from someone else's share. Now, it is true that
after the automation the capital assets of the
company are worth more, but the same people
who got the shares should have paid for the
automation, else the money comes from someone
who received no return on it.

>And since when is
>owning some stock in a company equivalent to a devaluation of same?

It is only a devaluation if you arbitrarily
increase the shares, with no more actual
worth. This is the same as monetary
inflation, but in shares.

>More importantly, if people are on the street with no money, they can't
>contribute to the economy except through begging. With some invested
>they can at least buy YOUR products and services and perhaps make a
>contribution back to society.

Yes, but if you just *give* them the "invested income",
then they are buying your goods from you with your
money; that is, you are just giving away everything
that they can buy with what the invested income
brings to them.

>Or are you sugesting that as more and more of the economy becomes
>less and less people are needed both as employees and consumers. So at
>point one must ask why is their an economy at all if it isn't there to
>the people? What is the point of a business if there are no

*I* am not suggesting this. Dunno about James Rogers.
As the economy becomes automated, we will all be able
to buy and use more or improved products.

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