Re: A Challenge To All Extropians/Free Martketeers

Randall R Randall (
Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:43:54 -0400

On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:06:49 -0700 Paul Hughes <> writes:
>Damien Broderick wrote:

>> minimum Guaranteed Income. Libertarians will have problems with this
>> notion, especially in the presumed need for a centralised or
>> agency to collect and redistribute the revenues.
>What is their alternative? Sounds to me like anarcho-capitalists don't
give a
>damn about the poor ~80% of the world!

It isn't that we don't care, but that we think that the absence of
force would do a lot more than any governmental program
could for the poor.

>In several days of hashing out these issue
>out on both the transhuman-list and now the extro-list, not a single
person has
>been able to come up with a free-market alternative. They conclude that
either we
>will have to work like dogs until the end, or if we're very lucky,
>transhumans will give the rest of us a hand up as we approach the
>have always liked the idea of a minimum guaranteed income and others
similar to
>it. Unfortunately Damien, you appear not to be a rabid free-marketeer,
and my
>challenge was to *them* to come up with a solution. So far they have
failed to

I don't know that there *is* a social solution. That is, one that
we can plan for ahead of time. The difficulty is that the first
posthumans will be far more powerful than any group or
organization that we could now form, and so we cannot
enforce 'good' behavior. I don't know of any substitute for
effort, whether capital effort or actual work, if one wants to
keep up, but if one is willing to stay at the same standard
of living, a continually (and sharply) decreasing amount of
work will allow it.

>**** So again I ask, is their any anracho-capitalist who can
demonstrate how the
>free-market can support and sustain a wide-spread liesure-class society
>resorting to "faith" that it simply will. If your conclusion is that we
must all
>continue to work in some form or another, then I DON'T WANT TO HEAR
>FROM YOU!****

Whoops. Sorry, but without using force, you have to
provide someone else with value, in order to get
value from them.

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