Re: Why atheism beats agnosticism (Was: Re: Contacting God)

ChuckKuecker (
Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:11:54 -0500 (CDT)

At 18:29 4/23/98 +0200, you wrote:
>> If there are gods or a God, I have a hard time seeing any reason why >
this being would have any particular interest in the goings-on of > Terrans
or any other lifeform, except as far as these beings could > evolve to a
level capable of providing stimulating conversation or > competition...
>This being would _by definition_ be a ruthless sadist, because it is
>supposed to be absolutely 100% omnipotent. It could have made things
>infinitely better for us but it didn't. It wants mindless worship from
>creatures it has equipped with intelligence and "free will" (what is
>free will if God knows everything in advance). What kind of being would
>torture people forever in hell for the slightest transgression? People
>it has programmed *itself* to commit those transgressions. It's like
>making a creature that's always thirsty, and punishing it when it tries
>to drink. The Judeo-Christian God does NOT value stimulating
>conversation -- he only wants blind worship. Competition? I don't think
>so! When Satan and Adam & Eve got too "emancipated" they got kicked out
>of heaven with a death sentence slapped to their ass...
>That's why we should be glad that He is just a myth.

I still don't see why a god or God must follow the hell and brimstone route.
What if this personage created the universe as a child might create a
sandcastle, and then 'grew up' and away from childish things? It might not
have any idea that life arose, and even if It did, It might care as little
as we do for an anthill 'way out in the woods...Why must we assume evil
intent? Yes, of course, the lack of positive interaction might appear evil,
especially if you are getting the short end of things because of it.

>Strong atheism should definitely be a part of the transhuman package,
>certainly if you want to teach the philosophy to novices, because
>otherwise they would be easy prey for any religious fanatic. "If you
>don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything". God (and the rest
>of the "supernatural") does not exist until he comes down from the
>heavens in all his glory etc. People really need to get rid of that
>"there must be some higher force"-meme in order to make truly rational
>decisions (about cryonics, for example). The god-meme is very powerful,
>in order to beat it one has to have a powerful counter-meme, not the
>maybe/maybe not agnostic approach. People are going to get infected
>with memes (programmed/brainwashed etc.) one way or another, that's
>how we work, so better make it the transhuman/atheist/rationalist meme.

In my younger days, I was 'born again' by close association with friends in
bible churches. I outgrew this in a few weeks when I realized that they had
the same lack of answers and proof as all other churches I had
seen...Teenagers are most at risk, I think.

>Oh dear, I have been preaching again...:-)

Hey, somebody's got to preach, else there can never be a force for change..

Chuck Kuecker