Re: Capital punishment and death by any other artificial means.

Michael Lorrey (
Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:07:11 -0400

Abraham Moses Genen wrote:
> Mark Grant wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Tony Hollick wrote:
> > Every country in Europe is safer than any
> > state in the US, AFAIK.
> Not true; several US states are 'safer' (in terms of lower
> murder rates)
> than some European countries. If you're not an inner-city
> drug dealer then
> most US states are comparable to most European countries.

Yes, one must, when doing statistical comparisons, except groups that
warp one group more than the other. Europe has nowhere near the minority
youth gang crime problem as seen here in the US, as they have nowhere
near the same level of minority youth gangs, unless you count the
ongoing situation in the former Yugoslavia as a big gang war. Such
criminals overwhelmingly commit crimes against other criminals,
especially when it comes to violent crimes. Why? Partly because other
minority gang youths are much more accessible than any other potential
victim, partly because of the tribal rivalry dynamic involved, and also
because most gang leaders know that cops will not bother them nearly as
much when they are victimizing their fellows than when victimizing the
white middle or upper class.

Here in NH, we have a minority population of less than 1%, will little
or no gang activity, with the exception of some biker gangmembers which
are also very insular. Even though NH has a much higher number per
capita rate of gun posession (at least 10x more guns if not much more),
we have a much lower crime rate than Great Britain, more in line with
possibly Scotland, and we've never had mass murders like Dunblane.
Recreational gun use is very popular here, leading to a high rate in the
population of responsible ownership and use of guns. Boy Scouts are
taught to shoot, and there are active police explorer scout troops in
most towns. The state is also very supportive of private ownership and
use of guns. There are hunter safety courses in most towns certified by
the state, the right of self defense is supported (and our state motto
is "Live Free or Die", not an empty sentiment like most state mottos).
There is also a state law excepting gun ranges and clubs from the noise
restriction laws of the state or local ordinances.

Also, if you look at the current violent crime statistics, nationally
there was a 3% drop last year. In the 18 states that have passed
"right-to-carry" concealed weapons laws recently, violent crime rates
have dropped 8% in the same period, leading one to conclude that at
least 80% of that 3% drop nationally occured in just those states with
more liberalized concealed weapons laws, while the rest of the country
changed little. So much for the success of the FBI or Clintons "crime"

As for the tort issue, I think that any criminal that expresses remorse,
is not considered a danger to others, and agrees to and participates in
programs to help solve their own root dysfunctions that led to the
crime, should be able to work on restitution, even under only house
arrest (electronic monitoring), since one can typically make more money
on the outside than stamping license plates in prison.

However, although I support the legalization/medicalization of drug use,
until it is legalized, I am rather hesitant to be so lenient with drug
related criminals, mostly due to the social problems that encouraging
freedom for drug pushers will exacerbate, and given that anyone
convicted of drug dealing, especially if they are a minority, has a
snowballs chance in hell of getting a legal job to pay restitution with,
giving them in home "detention" is merely encouraging their presently
illegal behavior, and that which their customers commit to get money for
their habits.

In the end we all know that solving our high crime rate nationally will
require 1)the legalization, taxation, and regulation of drug use, and 2)
the legal recognition of the right of all majority age individuals to
carry deadly force for purposes of self defense of themselves and their

			Michael Lorrey
------------------------------------------------------------		Inventor of the Lorrey Drive

Mikey's Animatronic Factory My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA) MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH) ------------------------------------------------------------ #!/usr/local/bin/perl-0777---export-a-crypto-system-sig-RC4-3-lines-PERL @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_ ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256; &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}