ard
----------
> From: extropians@maxwell.lucifer.com
> To: Rbrown
> Subject: extropians-digest V2 #106
> Date: Freitag, 18. April 1997 14:38
>
>
>
> extropians-digest Friday, 18 April 1997 Volume 02 : Number
106
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: John Blanco-Losada <jbl@clark.net>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 10:36:19 -0400
> Subject: HUMOR - Internet Mailing List Demographics
>
> Not sure if this is entirely on-topic, but given the "nitpickiness" of
> some of the recent discussions here the following at least rang some
> bells with me. Enjoy, and I apologize in advance to any of you who have
> already seen this.
>
> >>> Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
> >>> to change a light bulb?
> >>>
> >>> A: 1,331:
> >>> 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail
> >>> list that the light bulb has been changed
> >>> 14 to share similar experiences of changing light
> >>> bulbs and how the light bulb could have been
> >>> changed differently.
> >>> 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
> >>> 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
> >>> changing light bulbs.
> >>> 53 to flame the spell checkers
> >>> 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about
> >>> the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness
> >>> to this mail list.
> >>> 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
> >>> 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and
> >>> to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
> >>> 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar,
> >>> alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing
> >>> light bulbs be stopped.
> >>> 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we
> >>> are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts
> >>> **are** relevant to this mail list.
> >>> 306 to debate which method of changing light
> >>> bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs,
> >>> what brand of light bulbs work best for this
> >>> technique, and what brands are faulty.
> >>> 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of
> >>> different light bulbs
> >>> 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and
> >>> to post corrected URLs.
> >>> 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that
> >>> are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs
> >>> relevant to this list.
> >>> 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote
> >>> them including all headers and footers, and then
> >>> add "Me Too."
> >>> 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing
> >>> because they cannot handle the light bulb
> >>> controversey.
> >>> 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
> >>> 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
> >>> 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
> >>> 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion
> >>> was meant for, leave it here.
> >>> 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> John Blanco-Losada "You must be the change
> jbl@clark.net you wish to see
> http://www.clark.net/pub/jbl/jbl.html in the world." - M. Gandhi
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Michael Lorrey <retroman@tpk.net>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:13:01 -0400
> Subject: Re: Life Extension through legislation or the free market
>
> > ----------
> > > From: Dan Hook <guldann@ix.netcom.com>
> > > To: extropians@extropy.org
> > > Subject: Life Extension through legislation or the free market
> > > Date: Tuesday, April 15, 1997 8:51 PM
> > >
> > > That's a rather interesting idea, but it should be able to work in
the
> > free
> > > market as well. Get a lot of people to pledge a certain amount of
money
> > > for significant life extension. For twenty years I'd be willing to
put
> > up
> > > $10,000. Now, just get 100,000 people to do this as well and you
would
> > > have a prize worth one billion. How many immortalists are there?
> > >
>
> THere is a book just out, I believe called _Longitude_ about the
> Englishman who solved the problem of longitudinal navigation.
> Apparently, the Parliament put up a big prize to the person who could
> solve the problem. He solved it by developing highly accurate clocks and
> a system of astronomical and velocity based tables. THis is probably the
> most famous and commercially beneficial application of the invention
> bounty, though there are currently prizes up for many different
> engineering acheivements, and if you remember, Paul MacCready developed
> his human powered airplanes in the 80's to win such prizes put up by
> private organizations, doing a mile loop, then spanning the English
> Channel, and then the course from Crete to Greece that was mythically
> taken by Deadalus.
>
> If you note the progression MacCready took, winning each prize along the
> way, this might be a good blueprint to go by, having cash prizes to
> individuals or teams that extend human life past 120, 150, 200, and 500
> years. Given that the sums will be waiting for that amount of time to
> mature, they will be earning a goodly amount of interest while they wait
> for those spans to complete.
>
> As for cryonics, which realistically is by definition NOT life
> extension, but suspension, as a corpsicle is not aware, cognizant etc
> while under suspension, I would suggest prizes for successfull revival
> of various higher mammals as intermediary steps, with human revival as
> only the final one. Of course, there will also need to be prizes for
> anciallary technologies like nano that will be required for reparation
> of corpsicles to full capability.
> - --
> TANSTAAFL!!!
> Michael Lorrey
> - ------------------------------------------------------------
> mailto:retroman@tpk.net Inventor of the Lorrey Drive
> Agent Lorrey@ThePentagon.com
> Silo_1013@ThePentagon.com http://www.tpk.net/~retroman/
>
> Mikey's Animatronic Factory
> My Own Nuclear Espionage Agency (MONEA)
> MIKEYMAS(tm): The New Internet Holiday
> Transhumans of New Hampshire (>HNH)
> - ------------------------------------------------------------
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl-0777---export-a-crypto-system-sig-RC4-3-lines-PERL
> @k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
> ]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
> &S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: GeoffCobb@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:44:20 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: META: traffic-limited list idea
>
> In a message dated 97-04-17 01:40:07 EDT,Lee D writes:
>
> >
> > Yes, exactly, so you'll just have to spend your own tokens on your
> > own ideas, and no one will stop you. If people reply, they reply.
> > If they don't, they don't. Are you suggesting that minority topics
> > ought to get /more/ time than their accurate share of interest?
> > Minority interests are always protected better by a free market
> > than by any consensus-based system.
>
> Minority, isn't that pretty much everyone transhuman? ; - )
> META:
> Of those who benefit, a certain number of them will be those who travel
or
> are often too busy to write. Those who have the luxury of time, and post
> often will have to limit, others will have more than they use.
> IMO you have no control over quality, but the system makes for LESS
posting
> in general, limiting the list by numbers of words alone, if I am reading
it
> correctly.
> Question: When I return from a business trip or an extended work
schedule,
> will
> I have a lot of tokens stacked up? Or do they expire....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: GeoffCobb@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:47:40 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: Help: Communicate: Organize (Make Friend Not Associate):
Intro: Scott Pai...
>
> In a message dated 97-04-17 06:24:13 EDT, you write:
>
> > metamorph:
> > I change in drasticly positive ways.
>
> Automorph
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: hanson@hss.caltech.edu (Robin Hanson)
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Prizes (was: Life Extension through legislation or the free
market)
>
> Michael Lorrey writes:
> >THere is a book just out, I believe called _Longitude_ about the
> >Englishman who solved the problem of longitudinal navigation.
> >Apparently, the Parliament put up a big prize to the person who could
> >solve the problem. He solved it by developing highly accurate clocks and
> >a system of astronomical and velocity based tables. THis is probably the
> >most famous and commercially beneficial application of the invention
> >bounty, though there are currently prizes up for many different
> >engineering acheivements, and if you remember, Paul MacCready developed
> >his human powered airplanes in the 80's to win such prizes put up by
> >private organizations, doing a mile loop, then spanning the English
> >Channel, and then the course from Crete to Greece that was mythically
> >taken by Deadalus.
>
> I have a paper "Patterns of Patronage: Why Grants Won Over Prizes in
> Science" (http://hss.caltech.edu/~hanson/whygrants.ps), with an
> empirical study that suggests that the reason the once common prize
> was replaced by grants was that governments became the dominant
> research patron. So the current infrequency of prizes relative to
> grants should not overly discourage private patrons from using prizes.
> Prizes can be an excellent mechanism.
>
> Robin D. Hanson hanson@hss.caltech.edu http://hss.caltech.edu/~hanson/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: James Rogers <jamesr@best.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:06:28 -0700
> Subject: HUMOR: FW:Sorry for the delay
>
> Forward:
> >>> >STARDATE 10357.22 (March 28, 1997)
> >
> >>> >To: Heaven's Gate Personnel:
> >
> >>> > DUE TO EXTENSIVE TAIL WINDS CAUSED BY THE COMET HALE-BOPP, PICKUP
> >>> > OF THE 39 PASSENGERS HAS BEEN DELAYED UNTIL 3024 WHEN WE PASS THE
> >>> > PLANET AGAIN.
> >>> >
> >>> > DO NOT EAT THE PUDDING AT THIS TIME
> >>> >
> >>> > *** REPEAT ***
> >>> >
> >>> > DO NOT EAT THE PUDDING AT THIS TIME
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Mike Rose <mich_ros@alcor.concordia.ca>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:36:26 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: Prizes (was: Life Extension through legislation or the free
market)
>
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Robin Hanson wrote:
>
> > Prizes can be an excellent mechanism.
>
> This thread started with Robert Anton Wilson's excellent idea in
> Schrodinger's Cat.
>
> I see no reason why it cannot work. I just find it sad that the only
> incentive in today's world is money, and not pride, or fame, or the
> pure thrill of success, or the feeling of achievement gained when you see
> a private fantasy tuen into a reality.
>
> "The future exists first in the imagination, then in will, then in
> reality." -B.M.Hubbard
>
> Nobody believes in their dreams any more, only if they get rewarded with
> the surrogate american dream of MONEY MONEY MONEY!!
>
> it is a sad state of affairs.
>
>
> M.
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> -)(- FOR FURTHUR INFORMATION, CONSULT YOUR PINEAL GLAND -)(-
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> Chemical keys and Magick Password available from all fine Discordian
outlets
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: hanson@hss.caltech.edu (Robin Hanson)
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: Prizes
>
> Mike Rose writes:
> >I see no reason why it cannot work. I just find it sad that the only
> >incentive in today's world is money, and not pride, or fame, or the
> >pure thrill of success, or the feeling of achievement gained when you
see
> >a private fantasy tuen into a reality.
>
> But these other incentives are quite strong and growing. The trouble
> is that it is hard to affect other's perceptions of the pride, fame,
> thrill, etc. they will feel with different outcomes. It is much
> easier to affect their perception of the amount of money to be won.
> That is the whole point of money, after all, to make it easier to give
> other people what they want so they will do things you want.
>
> Robin D. Hanson hanson@hss.caltech.edu http://hss.caltech.edu/~hanson/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Lee Daniel Crocker <lcrocker@calweb.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: Prizes (was: Life Extension through legislation or the free
market)
>
> > > Prizes can be an excellent mechanism.
> >
> > This thread started with Robert Anton Wilson's excellent idea in
> > Schrodinger's Cat.
>
> The idea is much older than that: prizes for invention predate
> the relatively recent idea of patents by centuries, and have
> much to recommend them over the present approach.
>
> > I see no reason why it cannot work. I just find it sad that the only
> > incentive in today's world is money, and not pride, or fame, or the
> > pure thrill of success, or the feeling of achievement gained when you
see
> > a private fantasy tuen into a reality.
>
> All of those things--pride, achievement, thrill--are income, and no
> different than any other form of income. What each person desires,
> and what efforts he is willing to put in to obtain them, is a
> personal matter, different for each person on the planet. "Money"
> is a wonderful invention that allows different people to compare
> their desires more accurately and facilitate exchange. It is only
> a mechanism, not the end goal. But since everyone wants different
> things, if I want to give someone a prize for a certain task, money
> makes it possible for me to offer something of value to more people.
> If I offerred my labor, some may not want it. If I offered fame,
> some won't care. But if I offer money--interchangeable for all of
> those things--then everyone can participate, and use the money to
> buy what /he/ wants instead of what I might want to give him.
>
> Someone might very well prefer the feeling of accomplishment at a
> job well done, but that's his business, not mine; and there's no
> reason he can't have that /and/ the money.
>
> > Nobody believes in their dreams any more, only if they get rewarded
> > with the surrogate american dream of MONEY MONEY MONEY!!
> > It is a sad state of affairs.
>
> A meaningless tirade that people use to excuse the fact that they
> don't feel like doing what's necessary to achieve their goals, or
> by those whose goals aren't imaginitive enough. It would indeed be
> irrational to seek green squares of paper for their own sake; but
> any person with goals, who wants to interact with others freely to
> achieve those goals, would find those pieces of paper to be his
> handiest tool. Seeking money is a sign that you have goals, and
>
> <<< Continued to next message >>>