Re: Mainstreaming--re: Human Values (was Mainstreaming)

From: John Marlow (
Date: Mon Apr 30 2001 - 23:55:43 MDT

Yeah; he's one of the helpful guys/gals, most of the time.
Believe it or not, I *have* read some (by no means all) of his stuff.
I'm all for moving ahead. The point of moving ahead, to me, is to
further those things we consider most desirable. The best way to do
that (to my mind) is to move ahead ourselves--not to create "a new
order of intelligence" which may value nothing in common with us.

As EY himself has said, once his baby's up and running--all we can do
is hope for the best. I believe we should retain control of our own
destiny, not hand it off to something else--unless that something is
an improved (as opposed to "upgraded") version of ourselves.

True enough, we may be doomed either way. And we may not.

Personally, I'm unconvinced a truly conscious nonbiological entity
can be constructed. It need not be conscious, however, to destroy us.


Not trying to shout; just a lot easier to do THIS than_this_.


On 1 May 2001, at 1:15, Sabine Atkins wrote:

> 4/30/01 11:54:59 PM, "John Marlow" <> wrote:
> >#HOWEVER--once you become posthuman (and no one seems to really know
> >just what that means), you (or anyone else becoming posthuman, myself
> >AS "HUMAN."
> >
> >#You may in fact become something you would, were you to see it now,
> >despise, or find alien. The human values which led you to choose your
> >path and leave others free to choose theirs may no longer apply--may
> >be meaningless, even incomprehensible to you. You might, in fact,
> >view them as irrational or contemptible, not worthy of consideration--
> >as many here view the "values" of the "greens."
> Wow. After driving in circles, taking detours and dead ends, your comments and
> arguments finally go in the right direction.

#This was in fact the point of my 'technophilic-no-regard-to-
consequences' post which

> And then:
> >#This may well be a baseless concern, but NO ONE KNOWS--not me, and
> >not you. What troubles me is that no one else seems to give the
> >matter the slightest consideration. Everyone wants to GET THERE, but
> >no one knows WHERE "there" is--and no one seems to CARE!
> Stop shouting and start listening: There are people who care. You care, for
> example. But (to me) it seems that you're too afraid to move ahead and to try to
> find at least one possible solution to the problem you describe above.
> And there is at least another one who cares: Eliezer offered you a bunch of
> links, showing how much he cares.
> Please go to
> --
> Sabine Atkins
> --
> Singularity Institute for
> Artificial Intelligence

John Marlow

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