Re: Made in China

From: Ross A. Finlayson (
Date: Mon Apr 23 2001 - 18:23:18 MDT

J Corbally wrote:

> >------------------------------
> >Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:21:03 +1000
> >From: Damien Broderick <>
> >Subject: Re: Made in China
> >At 01:21 PM 4/21/01 -0700, Jeff Davis wrote:
> > >(Everyone outside of China knows what happened, the Chinese fighter jock
> > >screwed up, killed himself, and brought down the spy plane and its crew.)
> >I guess there are a bunch of aviation experts on this list. Since I have
> >zero knowledge of the aerobatics involved, could anyone explain *why* the
> >Chinese version is impossible?
> I'm certainly NOT qualified to offer a definitive opinion, but I've tried
> to hit slower moving aircraft in a flight sim. It takes effort and
> patience to do it, and that's without trying to stay in once piece
> yourself. It sounds to me like flying alongside the U.S. aircraft and
> giving it a gentle nudge down was the intention.
> >The analogy that comes to my mind is a clapped out old school bus ambling
> >along the high ridge, and this pesky Hell's Angel keeps zooming in and out
> >and all about, giving the driver the finger, and finally in a fit of
> >annoyance the driver turns the steering wheel a hair, and the biker is
> >suddenly in the air and falling, while the much greater momentum of the bus
> >keeps it firmly on the road, although dented and maybe with a blown tire.
> >Does this make sense? If it does, presumably the only reason for denying
> >that it's a possible cause in this case is that *Our Guys have Discipline,
> >and would never do such a loutish thing unless ordered to, and anyway
> >they're Our Guys*.
> >Damien Broderick
> >------------------------------
> My Hypothesis (Or "Shanghai'ed" Scenario, if you will indulge me:)
> Look at it from the Chinese perspective; You have this aircraft you need to
> "dissuade" from peeping on you (be it in your airspace or
> international. Either way it's close enough to give your leaders the
> collective willies). You can't fire on it. No siree. Whether in
> International skies or your own backyard, you fire on it and the other side
> will see it as an act of aggression, or worse. While this sort of thing
> went on in the Cold War, you can't hope to keep that quiet in todays'
> world. And even in the bad old days, it was a mostly a matter of
> "escorting" your "guests" out of your skies.

For example, some guy, Mathias Rust, flew a commuter plane into Red Square
during the Cold War. It was so funny, at the time. They let him land.

>From what I understand, the Chinese fighters were flying too close to the other
plane. Then, one of the Chinese fighters crashed into the plane and tore off an
engine and the nose of the plane, but it crashed that fighter into the
international ocean.

I don't understand why the plane landed in China. If it was still flying, I
wonder how far it was to friendly airspace and a friendly airport, if the
Chinese would not acknowledge the landing signals. My interpretation would be
that they would land because they were concerned about the Chinese pilot, and
thought that landing would be friendly.

> So the pilot gets told "Get it down without shooting it down". What's left
> for him to do? What they did in WWII when the cannon had jammed or you'd
> just poured your last ammo belt into Jerry. You give him a not-so-friendly
> nudge. Of course in the old days you'd try and wedge your entire crate in
> the other guys' cockpit, but here it's a delicate "tip". However,
> something goes a amiss. Either a misjudgement by the jet jockey, or panic
> by the "visitor", or turbulence from the jets' wake, and you've got a jet
> in trouble and an enemy coming down one way or another.

I don't think they had any weapons. What kind of planes were the Chinese
fighter jets? How were they armed?

These are questions I would want answered by, for example, the flight recorders.

> My guess is the White House, knowing the "facts", will go along with the
> "accident" story and instruct the U.S. crew to keep their traps
> shut. Telling the world that a Chinese pilot tried to ram them out of the
> air would leave the White House with an angry nation expecting
> payback. And the U.S. Government can't afford to be in a payback mood with
> the only other real superpower on the planet.
> Any kernel of truth? Or am I just smoking something?
> James...
> "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and
> crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures
> to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
> -Q, Star Trek:TNG episode 'Q Who'

Well, I would suggest collusion. Yet, it could be completely coincidental.
After all, it could be just one of those things. Then again, I wouldn't know.


Ross Andrew Finlayson
Finlayson Consulting
Ross at Tiki-Lounge:
"It's always one more."  - Internet multi-player computer game player

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon May 28 2001 - 09:59:56 MDT