Re: Economic (ignorance) Nativism and me

From: Emlyn (
Date: Sat Mar 24 2001 - 23:39:48 MST

Emlyn James O'Regan - Managing Director
Wizards of AU
"Australian IT Wizards - US Technology Leaders
Pure International Teleworking in the Global Economy"

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Economic (ignorance) Nativism and me

> In a message dated 3/24/2001 10:59:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
> << If there were no shortage, your salaries/rates would be lower than they
> are.
> Then, where would the incentive be to get people from overseas? >>
> OK, so basically you approve of a pay cap for domestic workers based on
> global competition, because the domestic workers demand too much. This is
> very much the view that I expected of those of a libertarian economic
> philosophy, and who is to say you are wrong?

You have read me wrong (libertarian economic philosophy indeed!). What I
mean is, that if there were no shortfall, you guys (and us guys) couldn't
charge what we all do. I think it's pretty clear evidence of a shortfall...
after all, it's not as if we are unionized or something. Any two programmers
have difficulty working together; there is no collusion on a grand scale.
So, the market is paying what it must, despite lack of organisation in geek
ranks; one can only conclude that it is undersupply.

So, perhaps the need for H1Bs is completely real?

On the other hand, if there were no supply problem, there'd be no reason to
go fishing overseas; prices would be lower. But there is, and there is,
because they're not.

> But all should be forced to compete in the global market. Why not bring in
> million medical professionals to take care of us in the USA? What about
> Sweetheart deals could be set up between health insurance companies and
> pharmacy chains-halving costs? This could apply to legal services also. I
> mean, why pay lawyers thousands of dollars when foreign attorneys could be
> much more inexpensive? How about foreign police and fire services? Why
> should these be exempt? :-) Eh! Its a notion.

Because... there is no shortfall. Or, if there is, in the areas of medical
and legal people you can't just ship 'em in, because of regulation of the

> Here is a link to a law firm
> that is dedicated to protect and promote foreign IT workers. Its a 'dated'
> link but it provides a bit of info.
> <>

There are definitely contracting shops around who are trucking in Indian
coders (damn their skillful hides) and selling their services. I know it's
happening here (oz), dunno bout the US.

> Yah! This has been done by Microsoft, with its India based training
> already, but there are contracting firms bringing significant numbers of
> foreign workers, anyway (see the law firm link above).
> So where does that leave us? If Joe Corp executive has come to feel that
> can get quality work of imported foreign workers, it will delight his
> shareholders if such occurs-more money in the short term. Notice how H1-Bs
> never applies to managers?

There's no shortage of managers!!!

> Supposedly, 5.6 million new IT workers will be needed in the USA in the
> 5 years. Gates and company may have a point, if true. If not....?

If not, and it shits us, then we retrain into a new industry. Hell knows,
coders have been involved in making that happen (redundancy) to enough other
workers out there. No-one will cry for us if it is our turn, mark my words!

(blah, lost my sig)

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