Re: How To Live In A Simulation

From: Dave Sill (
Date: Mon Mar 19 2001 - 16:28:39 MST

"Eliezer S. Yudkowsky" <> wrote:
> Lee Corbin wrote:
> >
> > Ethically, there is nothing wrong with making a simulation
> > containing emulations of conscious beings, and then running
> > it at whatever speed you want. Or shutting it down. The
> > only moral prohibition is, simply put, "Don't ever be cruel".

I agree.

> I disagree. Every conscious being

Including cats and dogs? People with IQ < 25?

> is a citizen.

Citizen of what? Sim City? And what rights rights does that confer? By what

> Every conscious being
> has the right to exist for vis own purpose, and to serve the purposes of
> others only with vis agreement.

Kind of spoils the effect of doing a simulation if the subjects have to

> In the instant any element of your
> simulation attains consciousness and citizenship, ve cannot be coerced.

[I find this ve/ver/vim/vis stuff silly. What's wrong with it/its?]

How do you detect consciousness?

> Ve cannot be forced to remain in your simulation or even to ever speak to
> you again.

What's the alternative to remaining in the simulation? Being deleted? Being
pinocchioed? What if we lack the technology to pinocchio a sim?

> Your situation, and vis, are in that instant made precisely
> symmetrical; you can no more command ver than ve might command you.

Pause the simulation, tweak some variables, resume the simulation. The sim's
behavior changes by the controllers command.

> The act of creation gives no moral right whatsoever to command or coerce.

You sure do make a lot of commandments. Are you running this reality?

> It is simply a historical fact about the causal origins of a new
> intelligent entity. Creators are not entirely powerless; they have some
> control over *what* is created; but once created, the creation is a
> citizen, and independent.

Oh, so it's not a rule you're laying down, but a fact. So if you're wrong,
and simulated entities *can* be controlled, then you don't have a problem
with that?

> That is the morality of it, those are the rights, in tomorrow's world as
> in this one; all that remains is the task of making it real.

Not so fast, slick. Others need to see things your way first.


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