Re: Can I kill the "original"?

From: John Clark (
Date: Wed May 17 2000 - 22:51:58 MDT

Harvey Newstrom <> Wrote:

> I was referring to the location of the brain, not the consciousness.

Why? Who cares about that?

>>I've been making and destroying a billion Harvey Newstroms every second
>>since you were a one celled zygote, so you tell me, who is the original Harvey

>The thing that you copy *from* is the original. The thing you copy *to* is
>not the original.

I see, well that's all very nice but I do have just one question, who is the original
Harvey Newstrom?

> I have pointed out many fallacies in your logic.

Strange, I can't recall you doing that.

>You redefine terms half-way through an example.

Name one.

>You claim to make a second and third copy, and then later claim that
>there is only "one" copy.

I was talking about second and third copies of bodies having the same
consciousness, but of course you already knew that. I detect desperation
on your part, and that's consistent with your readily apparent rising anger.
I've found that people rarely get angry when they're winning an argument.

>If you create a body and destroy it so fast that it doesn't have time
>to have a single thought, then you have failed to recreate my
>consciousness in a copy.

Yes. That was exactly my point, the fate of the copy can not be the entire
story because you, the sum total of all the trillions of copies, is alive and

>You have changed the definition of the copy from being a functional
>mind copy to a nonfunctional body copy.

I've done nothing of the sort, all I did was start talking about a different thought
experiment. I didn't realize that was illegal.

>It's a fruit!

Fruit grows on trees, tomatoes grow on vines.

>If you try to ignore the atoms and energy, and just try to have "redness"
>exist by itself without any reliance on the real world, you are defining a
>mystical soul.

Nonsense. Redness is not light waves, if I sit in a dark room and put a little
pressure on my eyeball I can see red flashes. I don't even need to do that,
I can just remember what redness looks like. Beethoven's ninth symphony
is not air pressure graph either, it's a brain state.

              John K Clark

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